The American Vote.

[gioarmani]

Don't worry if you're not American (some actually enjoy that sort of thing). It's obvious how certain policies can affect the world both negatively and positively. I'm quite interested to see the reactions; particularly the Europeans, those from the Middle East, and our Asian members. Don't hold back your thoughts & opinions!

Thanks again

[archibald]

Sometimes it takes a while--in this case six years--but the American people always figure it out. Unchecked and arrogant power has never set well with us, and two days ago we proved it still doesn't.

[r11co]

All very true, but is it a case of the public wants what the public gets or the other way around?!

Its all well and good to blame the media for fuelling a bandwagon, but something has to set it rolling, and precisely the same tactics brought the outgoing lot into power in the first place.

[jonthebhoy]

I voted for:

"Honey, where the hell's my Insulin!"

I'm sorry, and if anyone can remove my original vote, I'll look at it again and vote again.

Unfortunately I can't guarantee I won't make the same choice.

I have no faith in my own government far less anyone else's (regardless of party).

I don't need the media to tell me what a [censored]-up the Iraq war has been - it's there for all to see and the US and UK governments ought to pay some price for their blinkered action.

JTB

[Pugwash]

So what is the perception of America abroad?

The general anti-war perception is that you shouldn't have gone into Iraq without an exit strategy. The other stuff you mentioned is what a few people believe and your media tells you that everyone believes that outside of the US. Don't believe the Media on what they tell you we think - we're better than that.

[Guest TTK]

6th year election results ALWAYS see seats lost in both houses of the congress when those seats were held by the party of the sitting President. Always. It never EVER fails.

I think Robert, that you may find Clinton bucked that particular trend.

As for Reagan.....well he might have been good for Americans....not so for everyone else....he's the reason Pattaya is over-run by Russian and Eastern Europen gangsters......and not just Pattaya.......the whole of Europe and the UK is over-run by them.......bringing down the wall was a very bad idea.....!

Edited November 10, 2006 by TTK

[jkerouac]

The media has been unrelenting as it has hammered the current administration over everything it does not agree with. There have been ceaseless discussions of every shortcoming, real or imagined. These opinions have been broadcast around the world and they are the source of information for multitudes of people.

The media blah, blah, blah.....

They do what they are paid to do, whether they are liberal or conservative, US or foreign.

I would argue that in the early days of the war the "mainstream" media were not critical enough in unveiling the flimsy pretexts and stilted intelligence the administration was putting out. (The same applies to the Democrats, who sat mute lest they be considered undemocratic.)

Sexual pecadillos? It wasn't that long ago that Repubs used that as an excuse to tie up the political process by trying to impeach Clinton.

Economy? Sure, overall our economy is strong but how long will that given the pork barrel policies of the administration and their cronies (Motto: "Ubi sunt mea?" translation: Where's Mine?). It's fascinating to me that the Clinton administration proved to have been far better stewards of our money than the so-called fiscally conservative Republicans.

In my opinion, the American majority for too long caved in to the Republican fear and distortion tactics. Sure, ads for both parties leave one needing a shower to get rid of the slime that is being tossed. But I have to hand it to the Republican party, they have been masters of the art.

As for staying the course, remember the definition of stupidity: making the same mistake over and over again yet expecting a different result. American needs creative solutions. I do not think the Democrats have all the answers...no more than the republicans have all the answers. And sure, they will make mistakes....big mistakes. But the optimist in me hopes for gradual progress in moving away from today's failed policies. And aside from whether people think Bush is a boob, a devil, or the best thing since sliced bread, I think that's that best anyone can hope for.

[gioarmani]

I wholeheartedly agree with most everything that's on here.

Taking into consideration the fact that Bush is a lame duck, Rumsfeld's been kicked out on his ass, and now Bolton is in the cross-hairs, I guess my new/newer question would be--minus the mistakes of the current administration, considering a slightly leftist media--why haven't the Democrats been able to scrape up enough balls to use that to their advantage until now, and if this falls towards a lack of cohesive or strong leadership potential amongst the new controlling party, where do you feel this leads to (not just for Americans, but the rest of the world as well), post 2008? (keep in mind the Imperialistic attitude that the Bush administration has brandished to the rest of the world since the turn of this century)

And on the same token, do you feel Blair will suffer the same repercussions in the immediate future as well?

[ArtM3]

the American people (and those of the world) are smarter than we give them credit for...they are not 'dupes' of the media...which is controlled as much by the right as the left...

the economy...

the market has grown 8% in 7 years

education costs have risen 75%

medical 100%

average wages have gone DOWN

401's have taken the hit to re-establish the market...

record trade and budget deficits

all I have talked to, those in Iraq, and those who have returned said to a man it is MUCH worse than it appears on the news...

less water & sewage systems

less power per day

less food

less medical care

attacks at record levels

mass desertions of Iraqi troops and refusing orders

in addition to the deaths recently reported anywhere from 600k +/- 300k or the actual Iraqi government, 150k, let's call it a conservative 200k...since Americans are pretty self centered let's put that on terms we can relate to...equivilent US deaths 2.4 million....two point four million...get your head around that one...

as much as they would like you to believe everyhting is peachy keen, thank God the American people saw thru the smoke & mirrors and called for change...

[TwoTone]

Art's Rant On:

the American people...

Art's Rant Off.

As faithfully reported by the liberal media...

Nanuq, I love ya man...

TT

PS: Did your package arrive today? Mine did

[Miss Understood]

My dear bhoys, I do hate these political arguements. Certainly you have better uses for those testosterone addled minds?

And Art my dear. Tsk. Is 200 thousand deaths truly a conservative figure? It took perhaps two minutes to find another bit of information that constrasts yours rather starkly. My mind does become addled when asked to perform large calculatons but it appears that 200,000 persons divided by five years of war works out to roughly 40,000 deaths every year?

Please do tell me what you think of this information? Be truthful my dear bhoy. Your bias is showing.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

[gioarmani]

I say we start term limits now for EVERY political clown, nobody gets more than two terms period, end of game, go back to the farm, Goober.

Amen!!!

And they can start with the Supreme Court Judges--position for life?! Are you kidding me? They should have a minimum of two, 4 year seats--not dissimilar to the president--and limited to two; regardless of whether or not they're consecutive.

[ArtM3]

As faithfully reported by the liberal media...

Nanuq, I love ya man...

TT

PS: Did your package arrive today? Mine did

standard tactic is to mock, dismiss or redirect when the facts aren't on your side...

the basic 'I'm smarter than you so I see clearly the reality of the situation and the other side doesn't' mindset...arrogence at it's finest...a mask for doubt and insecurity...

news flash: chances are equally probable that you have deluded YOURSELF and they are right

ignorance is bliss...you must be estatic

[ArtM3]

My dear bhoys, I do hate these political arguements. Certainly you have better uses for those testosterone addled minds?

And Art my dear. Tsk. Is 200 thousand deaths truly a conservative figure? It took perhaps two minutes to find another bit of information that constrasts yours rather starkly. My mind does become addled when asked to perform large calculatons but it appears that 200,000 persons divided by five years of war works out to roughly 40,000 deaths every year?

Please do tell me what you think of this information? Be truthful my dear bhoy. Your bias is showing.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

I've seen it, years ago...

the number in IBC only counts deaths that made the news...some estimate that at one out of three, or less

been reading the news? 3000 per month REPORTED is the current rate...

the 150k number came directly from members of the Iraqi government and has not been disputed by ours

the 600k +/- 300k from a Lancet/John Hopkins study, validated by others...

what's funny this methodolgy has been widely accepted (even by the US) when applied to Africa, Bosnia, etc.

even the number killed by saddam...but in this case it's dismissed, wonder why?

talk about bias, minimizing the deaths of x00,000 because they are not of your clan....dear boy (sounds racist and condescending doesn't it?)

Edited November 12, 2006 by ArtM3

[gioarmani]

Careful against Miss Understood; that's a matriarch!

[ArtM3]

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030224/alterman2

liberal media? snow job...

suppose the 'bias' is only seen by those who want to see it, or use it to reinforce their position...

suppose this 'bias' is actually the natural process of the media reflecting the views of the majority of Americans...and rejecting those of extremists...

suppose this 'bias' is against the fringe elements on both sides...and the media is representative of the mainstream repubs & dems...

suppose if we don't get our heads out of our asses, and come together, we will lose an opportunity to make things better, and take control of our government back...

suppose Bush sr. (a good man) saw his son raped and misled by neocons and is trying to do something about it: re new Sec Of Def, Baker on the Iraq commission...etc.

Edited November 13, 2006 by ArtM3

[eddhead]

The media blah, blah, blah.....

They do what they are paid to do, whether they are liberal or conservative, US or foreign.

I would argue that in the early days of the war the "mainstream" media were not critical enough in unveiling the flimsy pretexts and stilted intelligence the administration was putting out. (The same applies to the Democrats, who sat mute lest they be considered undemocratic.)

Sexual pecadillos? It wasn't that long ago that Repubs used that as an excuse to tie up the political process by trying to impeach Clinton.

Economy? Sure, overall our economy is strong but how long will that given the pork barrel policies of the administration and their cronies (Motto: "Ubi sunt mea?" translation: Where's Mine?). It's fascinating to me that the Clinton administration proved to have been far better stewards of our money than the so-called fiscally conservative Republicans.

In my opinion, the American majority for too long caved in to the Republican fear and distortion tactics. Sure, ads for both parties leave one needing a shower to get rid of the slime that is being tossed. But I have to hand it to the Republican party, they have been masters of the art.

As for staying the course, remember the definition of stupidity: making the same mistake over and over again yet expecting a different result. American needs creative solutions. I do not think the Democrats have all the answers...no more than the republicans have all the answers. And sure, they will make mistakes....big mistakes. But the optimist in me hopes for gradual progress in moving away from today's failed policies. And aside from whether people think Bush is a boob, a devil, or the best thing since sliced bread, I think that's that best anyone can hope for.

Boy, you really nailed it, both with respect to the mainsteam media's reluctance to criticise the administration's domestic and foreign policy/tactics following 9/11, and with the lack of input from the democratic minority. One of my favorite comediens and policital satirists is Louis Black.. one of his great quotes is that " The republicans are the party of bad ideas, and the democrats are the party of NO ideas"

As to the economy, while it is true that on a macro level most indicators including the market are fairly strong, the overwhelming proportion of wealth gain goes to the ultimate top tier... I believe it is the top 5% or so. In Real Income terms, the majority of the population has lost ground, i.e. suffered income erosion since 2000. If you say the wealth is not being shared, you are accused of promoting class warfare, but irrespective of the name calling, the fact is THE WEALTH IS NOT BEING SHARED BY THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF AMERICANS. And this information does not come from some liberal think tank it comes from the GAO. Even Ben Bernanke has publically stated his concern about this. Also leave us not forget that the growth we are seeing is largely the result of US overspending.... the size of the US debt is now approaching $9 trillion dollars and is largely held by foreging entities who are not all together friendly to us. That puts these countries (Communist China) in a position to exert a lot of influence over our foreign policy. Also remember that when the Bush Administration took office the country had a $3Trillion dollar SURPLUS!! In other words, in 6 years we have spent $12 Trillion more than we have taken in in tax receipts. All things considered we really do not have that much to show for our $12 Trillion. No Universal Health Care, impending Social Security crisis, lack of job creation, lack of a comprehensive energy policy/ lack of investment in our energy infrastructure, rising intrest rates (which increases the cost of home ownership in the middle class), declines in real income for the marjority of americans, a poorly equpped armed infantry, reduction in veteren benefits, lack of progress on the 9/11 commission's national security recommedations, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, the list goes on and on. It is like they have a brown thumb, everything they touch goes to sh*t . But CEO's of fortune 1000 companies are doing verrry well.