kitersoze

beauteous!

ahman, zig, i'm so very sorry to hear about this terrible accident. i'm sorry for your loss of mates, and feel how inadequate any words i may express of my sympathies towards their families.

thanks very much, toad n wraith, fr the feedback! i think i'll give 'em a try on some straps n see how it works out.

hey all, i've seen these guys on a couple of forums' (rwi, rg, i think here as well) "definitive strap dealer lists": http://www.internationalwatchman.com/home.html anyone bought from these guys or have feedback on them? their selection on straps is not particularly huge, exotic, or high-end, but their prices for certain basics (like buffalos, or shell cordovans, croc grains fr PAM's) is markedly lower from anyone else. like so much lower that one can't help but be skeptical or wonder what's wrong with the quality. anyone have any experience with these guys? thanks in advance.

Thanks, by-tor, for the advice. So from what you're saying, i'm getting that NOT having the engraving doesn't necessarily detract instantly and massively from the overall accuracy of the bksub. is that right? i'm not going into an AD to try to pass the thing off or anything, but i'd like to make sure that NOT having the engraving is not the rep equivalent of the dial spelling it "BOLEX" or "Nubmariner"!

I'm excitedly in line for one of BK's super Subs, and there's the choice of having it with or without the rehaut ROLEX engraving. I initially was thinking M serial instead of Z because it seems like all the most updated Sub versions from every dealer have this "innovation" and, since i was getting a 'new' sub, i thought this would be the most current and 'accurate' model. but i'm not particularly wild about the engraving. in fact, i actually find it visually distracting and detracting from the overall aesthetics of this classic and legendary watch. yet when i look up the gen versions of this watch for sale online and at one AD, none have this engraving. in fact, the official Rolex site doesn't even have it on their pics for the Black and LV models (they only show it for the Blue and TT models). so what's the story with this engraving? is it simply a matter of preference, readily available to buyers in either version? bk's sub is a work of art, and i imagine it will be my super'mariner for quite some time. i'd like to know where to qualify this rehaut engraving in terms of "accuracy" vs. my own personal taste. sorry if this is a noob question; i searched quite a bit but couldn't find a specific reference. thanks in advance, all.

is it just me, or is that not a really bad rep of a gen hand? sheeeeet, i could spot that from across the room, even if it were wearing a really large gen watch. ...though i still would have enough tact and courtesy not to call her out on it! nah, that just makes you REAL fake. or perhaps a FAKE real person...

thanks PAMman for the info. i knew it couldn't be SWISS swiss ETA. i just wasn't sure if 6497 had a similar situ as, say a 2824, gen ETA (real Swatch group HK made) or just clone ETA. valuable info, thanks again.

i certainly would be curious to see what results. if it turns out to be junk, then very little was lost, relatively. good luck and thanks.

thanks, lani, for the wonderful words and sentiment. leadership-wise: ultimately, it's about the mind, not the skin (at least it should be). it came down to dumb vs. smart, and thank whatever, for once it was smart that was chosen.

i've always wondered about people like that - the existence they've had, the choices they've made. relativism aside, do they really think, deep down where they don't like to look, that they're actually good people? after all, isn't that what we all think of ourselves in the end? are they really unaware of their effect on people's lives in the wake of their actions and decisions? because, after all the rationalizations lose their potency when faced with the end of days, i would think there's gotta be stark, unblinking, gnawing fear at what comes next, regardless of your creed or beliefs... good riddance... congrats on your impending nuptials, tj.

by the way, ajoesmith, that friggin' avatar of yours is so distracting, i always forget for a little while what the thread topic is supposed to be... jesus, who the hell is that and where can i find similar avatars to confuse and mesmerize my opponents!

oh lordy, i can't believe it but i'm startin' to come around to Pam's. when i came to this forum i'd only ever seen a coupla pams and at first, it was still the same reaction for me: what's the bfd?! not simplicity (like PP is for me), but kinda plain, and not to my taste. but alot of people here are pam-gasmic, n the longer i've looked, the more they've grown on me. like a fungus... now i find myself looking n researching n researching some more, n then getting that frickin' annoying little itch in the depth of your gut... i've read tons of material, n of course to each his own taste. but one thing i can't seem to find a definitive answer on (which may be bcz everyone except me already knows as a matter of pure obviousness) is what PAM's (and I guess any rep for that matter) width measurements are actually describing. i'm trying to decide between 40mm and 44mm (radiomir 42's just don't do it for me, YET!), and i don't know if 40 and 44 refer to case width excluding crown and CG, or including it. i have, for example, a MB timewalker chrono SS band, which i love. it's supposed size is 43mmx15mm. but it wears big, at least to me or my eye (i've got a 7" wrist). but 43 is left edge to right edge, excluding crown. when you add the crown it's closer to 48mm. and that watch has a relatively unobtrusive crown (no CG) and two chrono pushers. the Pam's crown, and CG especially, are quite substantial and i would imagine add significantly to the appeared 'size' of it on the wrist. so does 40 n 44 mm cover the ENTIRE width of PAM's, left edge to CG? if not, what is the actual width, left edge to CG of a 40mm n 44mm. the 44mm's have so many more models available, but i don't want to look like i'm wearing a manhole cover (overall proportion is my ideal). i think you should wear the watch; not have it wear you. also, now in some threads of knowledgeable pam-lovers, i've repeatedly heard that leather wears much smaller than SS. so that even small wrists (<6.5") can wear 44's w/ leather. but SS bands should go to 40's. i don't understand that at all. regardless of what band, doesn't the watch itself sitting on your wrist look what it's gonna look like? i'm normally a SS band guy for non-dress watches, but i really like the SS and some of the leather straps of the PAM's. if this "leather wears small" thing is actually true, then omg i may have to get not one PAM, but two! just 2, right? only 2 goddammit... i mean it! cheers and thanks in advance to any with advice/opinions!

very interesting and informative thread (for noobs like myself, anyways); omg i love this forum. gen ETA vs. clone ETA, got it. the issue though, for me, remains the statement, oft confirmed by many here, that gen ETA's in reps are disappearing and a thing of the past. 1) Why? Is CN's ETA factory producing less, therefore, there's fewer of them around spread amongst gen and rep watchmakers? If they're producing normally, why can't rep makers get and use them as before. Or is it about profit, that rep makers can just use clone ETA's and pass them off to most buyers who don't know? 2) bklm1234 says that paying the extra $100 for gen ETA is worth the piece of mind, which i understand and would do, but if they're so few out there then aren't i just throwing $100 away and hoping i happen to get some needle gen ETA in a haystack of clones? n when all dealers buy from the same factories n often don't know themselves what movement is in the rep (either bcz it's dropshipped or they won't/don't/can't check), how do you ensure you're getting what you paid for? i've heard some people in this thread say they absolutely trust certain dealers (which begs the question what different factories are they sourcing from then? and who are they so i can buy only from them) and others say only order clone ETA's bcz that's what you're getting, regardless of what price you pay. i've been 'search'ing and researching this for quite some time and while there are many threads, i can't seem to reconcile these conflicting directions. 3) Does all this the same for Manuals as well as Auto's? In The Zigmeister's mechanical movement guide, ETA 6497's are super reliable and often an option in PAM's. Is he referring only to gen ETA's and are the ones dealers misidentify/refer to as Unitas 6497 all clones? 3) tonio and many others (including The Zigmeister), say Asian 21j are pretty bulletproof. Which is great, but almost always are paired with Mineral Crystal faces. What is the reality of wearing these faces? Again, my research seems to get very conflicting reports. Some say they just look/feel different, less quality. Others say the only way they could tell is the waterdrop test. So if I accidentally bang into a table edge, wall, or gate, I've got a scratch on the face that ruins the look of the watch?