alterego Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hi fellow members: I have always asked myself why is there such hatred against rep collectors from gen watch owners. Check any gen forum and you'll find many long threads that are full of ugly comments about people like us. I have some hypothesis about this phenomenom which I will share, but I'd like to know first if my perception is true or not. Thank youfor reading my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttsta Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Because they feel others are trying to impersonate the image and prestige of a genuine, without actually earning that right 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 You have to justify the insane amount you've spent on your genuine somehow. Theres really very little difference in the actual watch when you compare the latest H and Noob offerings. The only difference is the w*nk value of buying in the fancy boutique and being able to boast about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromag Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 People at all levels of social stratification work very hard to get to a certain level of success and prosperity measured against their peers. This success is represented by status and quality of their property and social circles. Facebook counted on this. So most people live in neighborhoods that reflect their level success and often choose cars, clothes, food, and other discretionary, and non discretionary items this way. Luxury watches are no different. So if you work really hard, or live a life of privilege, and the symbols of your social circles are GEN Daytonas, you will expect to have a certain rapport even with strangers sporting GEN Daytonas. And chances are you will have some common ground that is acceptable within your in-common social strata. If the person is wearing a rep AND they do not belong at your social level, you will wonder about their credibility, honesty, and many other things. Why some people actually get angry is hard to say but it probably has to do with taking offense in a personal way. That rep wearer does not deserve to wear the same symbols that I wear, or the fact that there are frauds among us cheapens our worth. Just speculating on your interesting subject 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archetypal Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Some gen owners (the ones actually interested in horology) carry a mix of gen and rep as it doesn't make financial sense to own 20 gens, especially to the richest folk, who can be rather tight with their dough. Those that have the passion for horology cannot be satisfied by 1 or two watches, gen or rep. If certain individuals are "full of ugly comments" about the rep industry and the community, they most likely no nothing about it at all. The fact is, if they did their research like the rest of us and knew something about the industry they would own a mix of gen and rep like a lot of our community! The type of individual to write such comments are probably so far up themselves, they have a perception that people are cheating 'status'. Status they feel they have worked so hard to earn. What they dont realise is the majority of our community couldn't give a rats ass about status, we just love timepieces, for whatever reason, and we all work hard in our respective fields. As an architect myself - the design, detail and engineering is what makes me tick. No pun intended. Finally the watch on your wrist is about yourself. I know people think they can assume a persons status by the watch as a symbol but IMO its impossible to judge someone by their timepiece and if you think you can then more fool you! Are you: A. The watch wearer as status symbol. B. The watch wearer as a student in horology. Just my penny. Edited August 23, 2012 by Archetypal 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidhle007 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Why do you have two threads in the same section for the same topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 If the differences between rep and gen watches can be quantified, then I would say that aesthetically, the difference would be within 10% visually, for the TOP QUALITY reps and their gen counterparts. If you are the gen owner, and you meet up with someone with the rep version of your watch, how would you feel, having spent so much more, to gain that mostly-inconspicuous differentiation? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Why do you have two threads in the same section for the same topic? +1 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingersxd Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Why do you have two threads in the same section for the same topic? he was making a point about replica's. in this case.. a topic was involved instead of a watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Rather than going down the route Cromag mentions, which is about elitism, I'll take a slightly different approach It's like going to a really fancy restaurant, and then seeing someone else paying for their meal with a special offer coupon. The guy paying cash feels that voucherboy doesn't deserve to be getting the same meal, the guy with the vouchers feels like he's getting a good deal and saving money. Who's wrong in that scenario*? *Okay, it's not quite comparable as the guy with the voucher is getting the exact same meal as the guy paying cash. We aren't getting the exact same watches as the guys buying gens, but I'd say the same principle applies. I view these as 'fair trade' watches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archetypal Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Exactly TeeJay, but if non voucher boy knew where to get the vouchers and did his research, he would definitely be using the vouchers, and except the fact that the portions maybe slightly smaller. He will soon realise as the voucher boys already know - you can still get your fill - and then some! Edited August 23, 2012 by Archetypal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I consider myself 'B'. In addition to my comment above, I think some of it may be the realization that they got rolled by the gen company to pay X amount for a watch which could have been acquired for less. The others, are just elitist douchebags, but hey, karma pays them back by having their wives and daughters screw their tennis coaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archetypal Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) Are you a tennis coach as well then? Getting the best of all the worlds. Edited August 23, 2012 by Archetypal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Exactly TeeJay, but if non voucher boy knew where to get the vouchers and did his research, he would definitely be using the vouchers, and except the fact that the portions maybe slightly smaller. He will soon realise as the voucher boys already know - you can still get your fill - and then some! Precisely so, because as mentioned above, wealthy people* tend to be very tight with their cash by saving whenever possible, so I think what really grinds their gears, is not so much someone having the same thing as them for less, but the idea that someone got a better deal than them or that they missed out on a good deal which someone else has taken advantage of, not necessarily the 'thing' itself *Inherited or earned wealth, not football players/rappers etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Are you a tennis coach as well then? Getting the best of all the worlds. If only I was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icoopernicus Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 As someone who can easily afford to purchase a gen (just about) anything, I am definitely in the camp of, one or two are just not enough. Since February I have purchased a number of reps, 3 Rolex, 1 Tag Carrera, 2 Omega Seamaster (en route), and I'm roughly $1500.00 in over about 6 months of the year. I wear them all and would not be happy with just the Submariner, I couldn't just have a Tag Carrera. I am fascinated by these watches but I simply do not have the means to own all of them in Genuine form, even if I could, these reps are so good that I just wouldn't. I don't pass my replicas off as Gens, even to people that would never, in a million years be able to tell the difference. Hell outside of the watch enthusiast community, almost no one could even spot a Carrera Day Date or Omega Seamaster as anything more than a Fossil chronograph or some generic desk diver from the department store. I wear my watches for me, whether I am watching "Unknown" and see Liam Neeson wearing a DSSD so I go grab mine to wear for the duration of the movie, or I am taking the dog for a walk and I press the mechanical pusher to start the sweeping second hand of my Chronograph to see just how long I am gone. These watches are not about status, they are about fascination, about a love for horology and a passion for classic mechanical machines that keep very accurate time. My boss scoffs at my replicas, his wife bought him a Quartz Aquaracer chronograph (he didn't know what the rotating bezel or the divers extension were for). At the same time, his jaw dropped at my 21j Grand Carrera RS2 (non functioning chronograph), How can you tell it isn't real? He says, Ha! He likes a nice watch because it gives him status while I spend hours just staring at my wrist and wearing 3 or 4 different watches in a day. I saw this on this forum somewhere and have hijacked it, I don't remember who had said it or where it originated from but... "When I look at my watch, the last thing I see is the time" I love this hobby Mike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasebah Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Frankly I don't buy into what is said here. "A passion for classic mechanical machines"? With an Asian 21-J movement faking a Patek? "not about status"? Why dont people buy an original Seagull Tourbillon instead of a Rolex fake? If we are honest a lot of the fascination actually comes form the brand. And the brand has a lot to do with its proclaimed status and lifestyle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Most guys I know who have one or two gen watches generally fall in the hate bracket towards reps..... because of whats been said before here... in terms of earning the right, working hard etc... Most guys I know with gens who are interested in watches... have no problem with reps.... As long as you dont try to pass off your rep as a gen ! The accuracy of a rep or getting it more accurate .. to me is about pleasure, its about enjoying a journey, its about enjoying a hobby and sharing that enjoyment...its about this community and the friends I have here... it is not and never has been about trying to fool people into thinking I wear loads of gens..... I will happily tell someone my watch is a rep... though most of the times I have been called out... I have been wearing a gen.... Yes I do play with people who think they know more than they do but that is a different thing IMHO... I like to watch them build themselves up and then wait for that right moment... to stick my pin in thier balloon... (not that that has happened much) I think what any gen wearer and indeed any proper people hate is someone trying to pass off themselves as someone they are not.... and those people usually wear reps to do that .... That general level of hate or despisment is that most people dont understand what we in this hobby are about or certainly most us.... if they did their attitude might be swayed... because all they see is guys trying to sell reps as gens or guys wearing reps pretending that they are something that they are not.... But you do see those same guys on here.... and I hate them... because all they do is register.... and post.... "where can i find...?" or "What is the best...?" now some of these guys then disappear some stick around to increase there rep collection to fool others and some are converted to the enjoyment and pleasure of this hobby and more importantly this community.. And overall I like this community more than the gen community of which I am a member of several.... because it is in the main truely about enjoying and discussing watches... and seeing what guys have done or want to do.... and not about look at me... look what I have or look where my wristie is now not because they want to share but because they want to show off !! So you could say I hate rep wearers !! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icoopernicus Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Frankly I don't buy into what is said here. "A passion for classic mechanical machines"? With an Asian 21-J movement faking a Patek? "not about status"? Why dont people buy an original Seagull Tourbillon instead of a Rolex fake? If we are honest a lot of the fascination actually comes form the brand. And the brand has a lot to do with its proclaimed status and lifestyle. The Asian 21j was the first mechanical watch I bought, it is a cheap RS2 Carrera, not a Patek. I have more invested in watches than is required to purchase a gen Rolex Submariner and doing so wouldn't break the bank. I have my eye on something specific, as a chronograph fan, and I will purchase this watch in Gen form and will not own a rep of it. I was in a jewlery store, browsing watches while the girlfriend shopped, They had a $500 Bulova Automatic with an open heart dial, kind of nice looking. but $500.00 for a watch with that movement in it, and that feels that cheap? No thanks, I'll purchase the odd Gen and keep collecting my reps that are of infinitely better build and quality than that $500 Bulova was. If this was about status I would just pretend they were real, something I have never done, not even to a stranger that happens to notice or ask about a watch they see me wearing. Like I said, I don't expect anyone to even notice or recognize any watch I wear and they generally don't (maybe it's a small town thing). I buy reps because I can't afford to buy every watch I want in gen form. Maybe it is a status thing, but if it is, I'm only fooling myself, because I tell everyone else that my watches are replicas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromag Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 @PeteM Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Frankly I don't buy into what is said here. "A passion for classic mechanical machines"? With an Asian 21-J movement faking a Patek? "not about status"? Why dont people buy an original Seagull Tourbillon instead of a Rolex fake? If we are honest a lot of the fascination actually comes form the brand. And the brand has a lot to do with its proclaimed status and lifestyle. For the first boldened point: I have never worn a watch with any complications like toubillon, moon phases, power reserve etc, and equally would never wear anything like that, simply because they are not to my taste, so anything like a Patek is totally out of the queston for me. I have a passion for watches, which I have had since given my first watch as a child, but that's not to say that I like all watches... Sure, I can appreciate the engineering that has gone into complications, but they certainly don't appeal to me to wear them... For the second boldened point: My appreciation for a brand comes from the history of the brand and it's historic peices and contributions to the industry, not from a modern perception as to the 'status' such watches convey, or even many of the 'modern releases'. The only reason I like the Tudor Heritage Chrono is because it is a re-release of the Monte Carlo, and retains that early 70's aesthetic. The 79090 might well be a mid 90's watch, but the aesthetic of the case and design, is classic mid 70's. My favorite watch in my current collection is not the last watch I bought, the last watch I built, the one I wear the most frequently, or even the one which contains the most gifted parts. It is this one: A plastic submariner with a quartz movement which no one could in a million years ever believe to be a genuine Rolex. Why? Because every time I see it, I smile at the joke which it is, and it reminds me not to take life too seriously. As for unbranded versions, sure, they would be an acceptable watch, but without the branding, they would only ever be an incomplete copy, like trying to recreate a Big Mac or a Whopper at a home barbeque and not having quite the right special sauce. The aesthetic requires that the branding be there, not the prestige such branding may convey. I've never once been called out wearing a Rolex rep, I've never even had anyone comment on one either, nor has it gotten me any 'special treatment', so while I can only speak for myself, it's realy not about the status or the supposed status, it's about what I like in a watch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thanks mate just my take.. But another thing I forgot to mention.... Is that I have learnt more about gens when going with reps than I ever have just trying to research the gen alone......and if I ever do buy a gen of a rep I have had then I am much more aware of things I need to know about it or the brand itself... and avoiding getting ripped off myself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaneraiFan315 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) My thought is there isn't really one or two archtype of rep owners. Sure there are d-bags who buys replicas of prestigous brands to show off, but then what is the difference between a d-bag who buys gens for that same purpose? On the other end of the scale, there are people who likes watches and appreciate what the replicate represents; and at rep prices can acquire a lot more than they otherwise would with gens. As for myself, it is hard for me to justify why I like the rep watches the way I do. I can go on about a brand's history and pedigree and how much I admire that company's history and horological innovactions, until I stop and tell myself what I am wearing does not represent any of them since they are fake. I sometimes refer my reps as "toys" instead of Panerai, Omega and Franck Muller because they are not Pams, etc. The answer I come to is that I simply like my watches as they are aesthetically pleasing to me, not for the brand, history, etc because then I am only lying to myself. As an aside, I also realize 6 months into this hobby, I spent close to 3,000 in straps, mods and watches. At this rate I could have gotten a used genuine in another 6 months! As for the OP's original question, my guess is that rep owners dislike rep owners for the simple fact rep owners acquire something they know is not genuine. Fair or not, this implies a certain degree of dishonesty. One can view acquiring reps and passing them off as gens is another "short cut" in life. Owning genuine watches suggests the owner had reached certain achievements in life and the very existence of replicas cheapens that sense of accomplishment. Just sharing my simple view of the world... Edited August 23, 2012 by PaneraiFan315 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 My thought is there isn't really one or two archtype of rep owners. Sure there are d-bags who buys replicas of prestigous brands to show off, but then what is the difference between a d-bag who buys gens for that same purpose? On the other end of the scale, there are people who likes watches and appreciate what the replicate represents; and at rep prices can acquire a lot more than they otherwise would with gens. As for myself, it is hard for me to justify why I like the rep watches the way I do. I can go on about a brand's history and pedigree and how much I admire that company's history and horological innovactions, until I stop and tell myself what I am wearing does not represent any of them since they are fake. I sometimes refer my reps as "toys" instead of Panerai, Omega and Franck Muller because they are not Pams, etc. The answer I come to is that I simply like my watches as they are aesthetically pleasing to me, not for the brand, history, etc because then I am only lying to myself. As an aside, I also realize 6 months into this hobby, I spent close to 3,000 in straps, mods and watches. At this rate I could have gotten a used genuine in another 6 months! As for the OP's original question, my guess is that rep owners dislike rep owners for the simple fact rep owners acquire something they know is not genuine. Fair or not, this implies a certain degree of dishonesty. One can view acquiring reps and passing them off as gens is another "short cut" in life. Owning genuine watches suggests the owner had reached certain achievements in life and the very existence of replicas cheapens that sense of accomplishment. Just sharing my simple view of the world... I would respectfully disagree with that observation. For example, Rolex introduced the GMT movement for Pan-Am. Sure, the GMT II I'm wearing might not have been built in Switzerland, but at the end of the day, I feel it does still represent that historical contribution, and Rolex as a company. Sure, it was made in China, but Rolex saw fit to outsource part fabrication to China to increase their already considerable profits, and their greed, is what has enabled me to have a 'Chinese Market Rolex' for a fraction of the price the suits in Geneva want to try and charge me for it. While I would never attempt to pass a replica off as the genuine article, I feel that they do still represent the company (in this instance, the Dark Side of a company's corporate greed, and the results of that) and regardless of if it's a real Rolex, or a fake Rolex, it's still 'a Rolex' I like to think of reps as fair trade watches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 My thought is there isn't really one or two archtype of rep owners. Sure there are d-bags who buys replicas of prestigous brands to show off, but then what is the difference between a d-bag who buys gens for that same purpose? Not sure anyone is saying here that there are only one or two archetypal rep collectors mate...certainly not what I read here.. but there is a big difference between these D-bags as you put it.... one is a D-bag .. who not only wants to show off but also wants to con you ... now whether that con is just in how much he pretends to be worth or to con you in how much he spends on a watch...... he is just a con .. to himself and those around him... The other D-bag is just a D-bag...with money... Or a successful con man :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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