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Can anyone identify this...?


gt_lad

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Hi all. Not at all familiar with the sub reps (despite my old profile pic!), I normally loom in the omega section. So, almost 2yrs ago a client gave me a sub rep complete with a box, but sadly it was stolen. Big shame is it appeared to be great quality and kept great time, only gaining 8sec a week. Since I've bought one or two more watches (another omega rep and a gen Tissot), but it seemed a shame to have an empty box and nothing to fill it! I took a punt on this but have no idea which factory or version it might be... Any ideas? I'm sure it has a cheep movement, and you can hear the rotor swinging when moving the watch! 

Please feel free to comment/criticize, very interested to hear some feedback. By the way, the lume is dreadful, and blue which I fear is incorrect? As said, be good to hear what you all might think.

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Looks to be a low end rep, and has many flaws.

For the sake of education M can I ask what the flaws are please thanks


I tread softly along the fine line separating raving insanity and lucid moments of ingenuity. The issue is I've no idea which is which mostly.
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31 minutes ago, Legend said:


For the sake of education M can I ask what the flaws are please thanks


 

Surprised you asked, but here's a few flaws, crown guards are incorrect, those look like a ceramic submariner crown guards.  The dial is awful, the minute markers are way too long, the date font is incorrect, the clasp is incorrect, indice and hands appear to be maxi and not LN type.  Lots more, including overly visible etched coronet of the crystal.

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Surprised you asked, but here's a few flaws, crown guards are incorrect, those look like a ceramic submariner crown guards.  The dial is awful, the minute markers are way too long, the date font is incorrect, the clasp is incorrect, indice and hands appear to be maxi and not LN type.  Lots more, including overly visible etched coronet of the crystal.

Thanks M.
I'm no Rolex expert. I could probably spot an AP rep but still not able to spot Rollie reps unless it's an obvious one.
Thanks once again!


I tread softly along the fine line separating raving insanity and lucid moments of ingenuity. The issue is I've no idea which is which mostly.
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Date font doesn't bother me, but the bezel insert is wrong for an F serial watch, bracelet flip lock looks funny and bracelet has solid center links, sure the markings are wrong also, and blue lume is interesting!

A BP with the 9015 Miyota would be a better watch at a reasonable cost.

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All interesting. I bought it on a whim, it was so cheap it doesn't bother me. I was aware of the etching being to heavy but I was blissfully unaware of the other facts. It's inspiration to go on the hunt for something more accurate now... Much research will entail!  Any pointers anyone?

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The guys here will try to help you, but you said yourself, much research. Do you want another Sub or are your interests more general? Do you want this particular model (16610) or a vintage piece or something currently in production? Really it depends how far you want to get down the rabbit hole. 

 

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59 minutes ago, Sogeha said:

 Really it depends how far you want to get down the rabbit hole. 

 

Exactly, it's a bloody big hole too :inverted:

1 hour ago, automatico said:

'REGMARINERS' are still for sale afaik and they look pretty good (to me anyway).

That's the one's :) thank you

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10 hours ago, Legend said:


For the sake of education M can I ask what the flaws are please thanks

 

I'm feeling free to also list the flaws.. 

 

Case: the lugs are off, they should be thin and not so thick

Crown: too big

Crown Guards: way to thick and round, for a 16610 they should be small and short also pointy when looked at from the face side

Dial: totally off.. Maxi Markers are incorrect for the LN (only done on the 5 digit LV) and dial print is also a total disaster in terms of font, placement and quality

Hands: also off, they're are too fat, the minute hand is too fat and looks like it could be used for a Maxi Sub dial better than this, also they're stacked on H2 position which is also a flaw. (most high grade ETA based Reps are too but it's a flaw nonetheless)

Insert: odd print and the pearl is not looking good. The surround is too wide and the pearl doesn't look good in general

Bezel Ring: bezel teeth are to shallow and should be deeper. Also the steel 'ring' (the thing that is before the bezel teeth start) that is around the upper side of the insert should also be started earlier

SEL: Shape looks odd, it's too recessed 

Bracelet: looks like solid links whereas the 16610 has hollow mid links. Also the SEL part looks super disgusting from the back. 

Clasp: Totally off, there shouldn't be a nail groove and the coronet is off too, clasp engravings also look ugly

Rehaut: Wrong font, engraving style

Markers: also totally off, mixed Maxi markers with non maxi ones.. (i.e. 6, 9) 

DateWheel: Wrong font, misplaced

 

 

There's more to all that, that's just a simple list. :) 

 

Gen for reference: 1092863d1429980199-rolex-submariner-date

 

 

 

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Crikey, these subs are a minefield! Guesing a good rep will correct most of these flaws in one fowl swoop?

4 hours ago, Sogeha said:

The guys here will try to help you, but you said yourself, much research. Do you want another Sub or are your interests more general? Do you want this particular model (16610) or a vintage piece or something currently in production? Really it depends how far you want to get down the rabbit hole. 

 

Model choice wise I wouldnt go down the vintage route (despite the appeal), but would consider something current or a 16610 dependant on what offers best value in terms of the quality of the rep/movement and over all accuracy.  It seems different factories produce better reps dependant on which version you look at, and that there isn't a consistent winner throughout the years?

It appears the rabbit hole leads to a warren full of twists and turns... more so compared to the 42mm PO rep I have!

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If you like the 16610 then IMHO there is only on way to go. TC sub V7. I absolutely love mine. In fact it is the only Rollie rep I would ever wear except maybe for an excellent Franken vintage. As was said before they are a minefield.

 

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10 hours ago, gasebah said:

If you like the 16610 then IMHO there is only on way to go. TC sub V7. I absolutely love mine. In fact it is the only Rollie rep I would ever wear except maybe for an excellent Franken vintage. As was said before they are a minefield.

 

I know TC's are something special but, it's more than I want to spend. I know I'll get itchy feet in another several months and start looking for something else, one of these would hit the watch fund a bit too hard!

I've found a couple of contenders that Josh has, but I don't know which factory or version they are, to then look them up on here. I suppose I could always contact Josh?

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It truly is a minefield, but to me the best way to find flaws is to get a good photo of a genuine watch (the model you want) and then compare the gen to the rep. After all, we are all trying to achieve reps that are more Gen-like, so the best way is to start looking at a gen and compare. All reps are going to have problems, it's just that every model or version is going to have a little different problem. Lots of these can be solved with gen parts and careful case modding, but then you start to get into a good bit of money. So my advice would be to look at the various ones that the dealers are selling, compare them to a gen, and then pick the one that has the least numbers of flaws that you can live with.

AFA the one you have, I would keep the box and throw the watch away!!! Just kidding, but it serves as a good example of problems with a cheap rep.

Here is a gen P serial 16610

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15 minutes ago, panerai153 said:

It truly is a minefield, but to me the best way to find flaws is to get a good photo of a genuine watch (the model you want) and then compare the gen to the rep. After all, we are all trying to achieve reps that are more Gen-like, so the best way is to start looking at a gen and compare. All reps are going to have problems, it's just that every model or version is going to have a little different problem. Lots of these can be solved with gen parts and careful case modding, but then you start to get into a good bit of money. So my advice would be to look at the various ones that the dealers are selling, compare them to a gen, and then pick the one that has the least numbers of flaws that you can live with.

AFA the one you have, I would keep the box and throw the watch away!!! Just kidding, but it serves as a good example of problems with a cheap rep.

Here is a gen P serial 16610

 

 

Yeah it will serve me right! My last two have been from Josh and been brilliant (apart from the missfortune of a dodgy movement), I couldn't resist the lure of something so inexpensive!

It's seems just under $300 is where good 16610 reps start?... http://www.pf-818.com/watches/rolex/submariner/classic-ranges/rlss00031a-16610-black-ss-sub-asian-2824-3135.html 

I will have to inspect photos closely, as much as these allow anyway! 

 

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Look very closely then start again........you'll find lots more flaws ;) to be fair TC on its own is a great value buy (that's why he sells lots of em) then wait till you've got a bit money together and add a Gen insert, crystal etc etc

I've had mine for years now and it's just about due a service, then I'll add a Gen crystal as it's already got a Gen insert as is, update the DW then I'm done for a few more years or until I decide to go Gen, remember as the guys have said though every rep has a flaw or few.....:inverted: 

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1 hour ago, sgtguk said:

Look very closely then start again........you'll find lots more flaws ;) to be fair TC on its own is a great value buy (that's why he sells lots of em) then wait till you've got a bit money together and add a Gen insert, crystal etc etc

I've had mine for years now and it's just about due a service, then I'll add a Gen crystal as it's already got a Gen insert as is, update the DW then I'm done for a few more years or until I decide to go Gen, remember as the guys have said though every rep has a flaw or few.....:inverted: 

Hmm, I'm going to have to look into the TC option some more. I can't see a web link in his section within trusted dealers, is it just a matter of emailing him and then he gives you a breakdown of available options? It appears that way from his post?

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Yes it is, just send an email to him and then wait patiently for a reply bud :) He can take a while on occasion to get back to you but he will in the end, worth the wait imo, we see it all the time on here and having done it myself too I know, if you start with a cheapie then buy a slightly better piece you will mostly end up buying a TC in the end, then you've spent lots more $$ than you wanted to in the first place :inverted:

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So the research continues (still yet to contact TC by the way). I found a thread about subs...

It suggests the BP Classic Sea Dweller as a great alternative. I'm struggling to identify it on Josh's site but Andrew has them. Does anyone have any recent experience?

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