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bluespower

Bond Submariner - Gen vs. Rep

33 posts in this topic

If this is a genuine Bond submariner ($65K on ebay) ...

214884-15841.jpg

then what the hell is this thing on my wrist?

214884-15842.jpg

Please school me on this. I want to learn. And I'd also like something that looks like the real deal!!!

Thanks for your patience.

Paul

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You've got the 5517 Rep, not the bond rep. The "Bond" was the one pictured - although I'm not good enough to tell if that's real/fake

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If this is a genuine Bond submariner ($65K on ebay) ...

215043-15809.jpg

then what the hell is this thing on my wrist?

215043-15810.jpg

Please school me on this. I want to learn. And I'd also like something that looks like the real deal!!!

Thanks for your patience.

Paul

The top Submariner is not a model that ever appeared in any Bond film. However, in the novel of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Fleming wrote that Bond wore a "Rolex Oyster Perpetual" with "large, luminous numbers." That might not have been the watch that was ever in the films, but I think it is probably what Fleming was thinking about when he wrote the novels.

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Hi Paul,

These watch nomenclatures that collectors affectionately label their favorite watches with can vary depending on whom you're talking to :) What one person's definitive idea of what a Bond Sub is will most likely differ quite greatly from what another's opinion is on the matter (this discussion takes place on the vintage forums every so often).

The watch in question from Bob Maron is a 6538 Big Crown (8mm Brevet), which is what most collectors term as the definitive Bond Sub. I believe Sean Connery wore either a 6536 or 6538 in Goldfinger, which helped perpetuate the 'Bond' label of this watch. The 5508's and 5510's are also labeled as Bond Subs, but I believe the 6536/8's have more of a defining role with 007.

As for the watch on your wrist... That is a replica of the 5517 MilSub. Much different than the earlier Subs that are associated with James Bond.

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Hi Paul,

These watch nomenclatures that collectors affectionately label their favorite watches with can vary depending on whom you're talking to :) What one person's definitive idea of what a Bond Sub is will most likely differ quite greatly from what another's opinion is on the matter (this discussion takes place on the vintage forums every so often).

The watch in question from Bob Maron is a 6538 Big Crown (8mm Brevet), which is what most collectors term as the definitive Bond Sub. I believe Sean Connery wore either a 6536 or 6538 in Goldfinger, which helped perpetuate the 'Bond' label of this watch. The 5508's and 5510's are also labeled as Bond Subs, but I believe the 6536/8's have more of a defining role with 007.

As for the watch on your wrist... That is a replica of the 5517 MilSub. Much different than the earlier Subs that are associated with James Bond.

Just to clarify, Sean wore a Submariner 6538. The Submariner for sale (with the numerals) is a 6200 circa 1955. The 6200 never appeared in any Bond movie, and was never identified by name in the novels. However, in OHMSS, (published in 1963) Fleming did describe Bond's watch as a "Rolex Oyster Perpetual," with "large, luminous numbers", which sounds very much like the 6200 which did have numbers on the dial, and would have been an 'established' watch by the time of writing (The 6200 circa 1953 did not have the name Submariner on the dial. The name was not applied untill 1955)

:)

6200 Circa 1953:

215143-15747.jpg

6200 Circa 1955:

215143-15748.jpg

[Edit for clarity and to add pics]

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Yes, my mistake.

Wasn't trying to put your down or anything, I just wanted people to have the accurate info :) I would absolutley love a c 1953 Sub, but the one Andrew sells has the name and depth rating on the lower half of the dial, it has crown guards, and the bezel insert has contemporary markings (both indices up to the 15, and a different font for the numbers) I think tracking down a wholly accurate rep will be impossible, so it might be a case of getting one of Andrews and then extensively modding it... :thumbsupsmileyanim:

[Edit to add]

The watch Sean wore, was Cubby Broccoli's own personal watch (as Rolex would not give them one for production and the budget would not run to purchassing one) However, this watch itself was by no means 'factory standard', as it had been serviced and apparently had parts from various models installed on it, which is why tracking down an identical watch is near impossible :)

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Wow, impressive detail of knowledge on this subject. Do any of our dealers have anything that comes close enough to mod into a relatively close rep of the 6200? Correct dial, case that could take CG removal, correct crown, riveted bracelet, etc. I'd like to take on the project, but you would need at least a correct dial and case to start with.

C'mon, fellas. What would it take?

BP

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Wow, impressive detail of knowledge on this subject.

What can I say, Bond is the reason I got interested in watches, and I've always wanted his watches :) I've got the same model Submariner as Dalton wore, and he was my favorite Bond until Brosnan took over, so an accurate 2531.80 is also a must. However, I still prefer the novels over the movies, so having the same watch that Bond had in the novels would be an ultimate goal. Thinking about it further, I suspect that the 6200 circa 1953 was what Fleming imagined Bond wearing for this reason: He was 100% specific in describing Bond's other 'things', be it cars, drink, food, guns, they were all described in indepth detail with no detail missed out. So, as written, "Rolex Oyster Perpetual" with "Large, luminous numbers", is precicely what the 6200 c 1953 is, and impossible to identify differently. It is a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, with large, luminous numbers. Now, admitedly, as the name Submariner was applied in 1955, Fleming could have known about them (if he was a watch enthusiast) but, given the detail he described everything else with, I think if he had meant it to be the 1955 vintage, he would have written "Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner".

Do any of our dealers have anything that comes close enough to mod into a relatively close rep of the 6200?

This is the closest available:

215613-15591.jpg

Correct dial, case that could take CG removal, correct crown, riveted bracelet, etc. I'd like to take on the project, but you would need at least a correct dial and case to start with.

C'mon, fellas. What would it take?

BP

I'd definitely want to take on the project, but there are some modifications from that available watch that would be essential.

First off, the dial. It should not have the Submariner name or depth rating. It must only say Rolex Oyster Perpetual.

Second, the bezel insert. Not only does it have no minute markers upto the 15 minute marker, the actual font of the numbers is very different to the font on contemporary bezel inserts. Chances are, this would have to be made as a run, or extremely lucky tracking down of original parts.

The bezel itself appears to have a true 'coin edge' rather than the scooped edge of the current bezel.

The case, not a problem. Have the crown guards ground off, and that would be that. Looking at the lower lugs of the c 1953, there are slight highlights on the outer sides where lug holes would be.

The crown might be harder to track down, or commision, as I haven't been able to find pictures which showed the crown end on...

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This is the closest that I've found. I got it from Silix a couple of years ago. I re-lumed the markers with a bit of yellow ochre oil paint mixed with luminous paste, took the bezel click out (so now its bi-directional) and put a NATO strap on it. I still have to drill out the lugs and file down the serial and model numbers. Silix lists it as out of production on their site, but I have seen a thread that some people are lobbying for a re-issue with a group buy. I think that Angel and Jay are in favour of it as long as they get enough interest.

From my research it looks like a 6536 or 6538 from '58 or '59. Here is a pic of the gen, then mine, and a still from Goldfinger. Sorry about the sizing.

220892-14522.jpg

220892-14523.jpg

220892-14524.jpg

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This thread has to be one of my all-time favorite reads on RWG. Man, and I thought I was a Bond nut. Great deduction from TeeJay on Bond's watch from the novels.

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My God, TeeJay I re-read it with a lot of pleasure.

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Yeah, this thread effectively delayed me from starting work this morning for a good twenty minutes. What we really need is a list (with pictures!) of all the Bond watches used in the movies.

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Yeah, this thread effectively delayed me from starting work this morning for a good twenty minutes. What we really need is a list (with pictures!) of all the Bond watches used in the movies.

Now that's an idea that should have been followed up on. Anyone with enough knowledge care to take on the task?

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Here's a Bond Sub from the late 50's-early 60's. I got this version from MBW.

post-15-1184548084_thumb.jpg

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talking about sean connery.....

i dont know why im posted this but i simply coulndt resist so funny :bangin:

post-5174-1206479029_thumb.jpg

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http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/articles/qbr...articles&t=

Scroll to the bottom of the web page and click on each link to see the watch.

The James Bond Watches

Dr. No Rolex Submariner

From Russia With Love Rolex Submariner

Goldfinger Rolex Submariner

Thunderball Rolex Submariner

You Only Live Twice Rolex Submariner

On Her Majesty's Secret Service Rolex Submariner

Diamonds Are Forever Rolex Submariner

Live And Let Die Rolex Submariner

The Man With The Golden Gun Rolex Submariner

The Spy Who Loved Me Seiko

Moonraker Seiko

For Your Eyes Only Seiko

Octopussy Seiko

A View To A Kill Seiko

The Living Daylights Rolex Submariner

Licence To Kill Rolex Submariner

GoldenEye Omega Seamaster

Tomorrow Never Dies Omega Seamaster

The World Is Not Enough Omega Seamaster

Die Another Day Omega Seamaster

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talking about sean connery.....

i dont know why im posted this but i simply coulndt resist so funny :bangin:

Great Odin's raven! MY EYES!!!

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This thread has to be one of my all-time favorite reads on RWG. Man, and I thought I was a Bond nut. Great deduction from TeeJay on Bond's watch from the novels.

Yes thanks TeeJay - I agree this is a great thread for Bondaholics :lol:

Here is one I just got from Silix with a rivet bracelet added:

122387884_o.jpg

122387873_o.jpg

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Here's a Bond Sub from the late 50's-early 60's. I got this version from MBW.

post-15-1184548084_thumb.jpg

That looks very yellow in colour.

Charlie

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