shimside11

This is actually an IWC replica. I was looking through an old 2006 IWC catalogue and there it was. page 15. Classic Big Pilot 52 S.C. 1940, sterile dial. It looks just like the original. Good font, markers and hands. Although the reps are blued. So, that resolves the mystery for me. I was wondering what was up...so there's your answer. Now we can all go out and buy one now that we know that it is a true replica of a real watch, and not just a cop-out sterile homage.

These are part of IWCs Vintage Collection - Jubilee Edition. They were introduced in Jan 08 to the press. They've got six new versions of vintage lines. They include: Portuguese, Pilot, Ingenieur, Aquatimer, DaVinci, and Portofino. They are starting out with 500 of each in platinum. The first 140 of each will be sold in six piece sets. After that they will be run in non-limited production in stainless steel. I don't even want to think about how much a limited platinum set will go for. I'm certain it's well beyond the price of my house which is about 400k usd. Now, the coolest thing would be if the rep makers got ahead of the game and introduced them in sets. Oh the irony...reproductions of reproduction watches in a commemorative set of a commemorative set. If these things come out as reps, I'm right there.

The guys at Timezone take themselves far too seriously. (The Paneristi are even worse). When you have spent multiple thousands on a watch, only to see someone with an indistinquishable copy that keeps time just as well, you've got to do everything you can to disparage it. It's a matter of self preservation. How can you sleep at night knowing that you overpaid for your sub by 5.600usd. You must belittle the rep or you will go insane. There is a phrase that I found here: "respect for the forger's art". That outlook by itself, for me, justifies our little pursuit. Because of the depth of knowledge required to really embrace this aspect of watches, some of our members know much more about horology than even the well-versed timezoner. If you see reps as an addition to your love of the sport, instead of some bastardized spin-off, you can take pride in your appreciation, and even pooh-pooh (ok...patronize) the narrow minded dillettantes over there. Frankly, I really like the iconoclastic and subversive nature of the world of replicas, all the while, moving in the "respectable" circles of the WIS. Can you imagine sitting at lunch with a "purist", talking him under the table about his 3135 movement, the pros and cons of microstella screws and nivarox hairsprings, the fabulous histories of the great manufactures and god-like watchmakers, A L Breguet, Daniels, Oechslin, etc. Bring up the latest Basel news, wax poetic about Gerald Genta's revolutionary designs, and get in a heated debate about the FiftyFathoms/Submariner controversy... then, as you pick up the bill, and he is still back at micro...what? you walk away with your spot-on Rolex/Breitling/IWC (whatever) and the poor bastard hasn't the first clue. Have fun with it.

It's interesting that you mention the Overseas. That is one of my favourite watches. I tried on a gen at Torneau in Las Vegas last year and fell in love with it. At 10,600usd the gen is about 5k out of my justifiable price range. I've looked into the rep (Josh's improved version) but I seem to remember reading some negative feedback on the clasp. I've had some bad luck with a replica dual deployant myself, so I've been a bit hesitant. Overall though, the Overseas is a beautiful piece and is still on my list.

I just got back from ten days in Oahu, specificaly Waikiki. Everyone from young Japanese kids to middle-age American men had one. Our boat captain had one, and that's really the only one I confirmed was real. I must have seen at least thirty that I took the time to notice, including a young couple in their early twenties, with matching SS Subs. I was considering a gen SS Sub as a reward for my next promotion, but I am seriously reconsidering. With all the reps out there, it's becoming such a common look. I know that the sub is a classic and the reps shouldn't influence me, but I'm tempted to just stay with a close replica and go with something a bit more exclusive as a gen. On the other hand (sorry..bad pun), I saw only one Panerai. It was on a guy at the luau. It was a new 1950 that he had recently purchased. The thing stood out from everyone else and looked absolutely fantastic. I know that there is alot of sentiment out there that the Sub is too common, but there is also a school of thought that any serious collector should have one. What do you think?

Well, I scored a couple of the hard to find catalogues while in Vegas last week. I got AP and IWC. Tried on a FA Jones while I was there. That is one cool watch.

I have a PAM 120 rep that is 40mm. After wearing it for a few months I got a Seiko Orange Monster for Christmas. Now The PAM rep seems small. I've decided to go for a 005 rep from Josh. I recently tried the real thing on at my local AD and it seems to be a much more reasonable size than it used to be. I have a 6.5" wrist, and when I first tried a gen Panerai on two years ago, there was no way it was going to work. I guess that it's just a matter of getting used to trends. The cool thing about reps is that when huge watches are out and you can't believe that you actually used to wear something that ridiculous, you remember that you didn't spend $6,000.00 on it. For a couple hundred, I'm good with putting it in a drawer until they come back into fashion.

I have received several catalogues from the source at their various websites. Many of them have a link that you can order a catalogue. I got Carl Bucherer, Cuervo y Sobrinos, and some others that I don't recall. Mostly though, I get them from the AD. I find that if you go in with any familiarity with the brand, enough that they know you've done some homework, they usually offer the catalogue, and bottled water, and allow you to try the nicer ones on. I usually ask them if they have a model that I know very well that they won't have in my city.Also, little things like "is this one a Z series?" or "Anonimo...isn't that where Dino Zei went when he left Panerai?" or simply "are these guys a Swatch company?" help convince them that it won't be a waste to give you one. It may help to dress nice and be over 40. Don't know if you can do anything about that last one... The catalogues I've obtained from dealers: Omega (the hardbound cat. not just the pamphlet) Breitling (it's called the "Chronolog" ask for it by name) Panerai Rolex Tissot Oris Tag Heuer Longines Ulysse Nardin Some that have eluded me are Patek, Vacheron Constintin, IWC, and Audemars Piquet It's almost as fun as collecting reps, well...not really, but it is amusing just for the thrill of the hunt.

This one looks like a step backwards from the new and improved subs. It looks like the bracelet has solid mid links (if I'm wrong tell me). As was noted the "m"s don't line up. It has the old sticker with the gold numbers. The pearl is also not as correct as I have seen, though it is better than most. I got one in '05 from Paul that is more advanced than this one. I'm actually in the market for another sub, as my crown is stripped and I'm not inclined to repair it. You said that this is Josh's expensive one? Does anyone have pics of the beginmariner - is it any better? Now I'm confused.

I've been looking at Josh's 005 for 108usd. It looks like a good rep, no exhibition back to deal with and it reps the entry level panerai so it's credible for me.

Here's my contribution. This one is from Paul, from the old abay days. First version with the hollow mid links. This is a silix bond sub, re-lumed with white luminescent paint mixed with yellow ochre oil paint. Bezel click taken out. It's an on-going project, still needs the lugs drilled out and the serial and model numbers taken off.

That's the real deal.

Yesterday I was at my local Panerai dealer and noticed that they had a Pam 119. So today I brought in my 120 rep (I replaced the bracelet with a strap) to compare just for kicks. Wow...these things are getting closer to gen every day. The only really obvious flaw is that the date wheel is too small. the colour of both the dial and the markers is very close. The crown protector is slightly less beefy, but not obviously so. The lume would be a dead giveaway in low light, but you can't tell in "daylight" (sorry, couldn't resist). One thing that I thought was interesting, the guy said that he had to show it to the resident panerai expert. He was quite impressed with it, then turned it over, and looked at the back. He saw 0938/5000 and said "they only made 500, not 5000 of this one". I told him that it had the caseback of the old pam 70 that had 5000 issued. PAM fans really tend to know their stuff. It's probably stating the obvious, but the gens really have an air of quality and attention to detail, that reps just cannot approach. The weight is the same, and cosmetically they are very similar, but I can see why the brand has really taken off. They just scream quality and craftsmanship. I'll pay 5k USD for one with no regrets (once I've got the discretionary cash). Overall it was a very enlightening experience. I tried on a gen 005 that just arrived today. Now I need a gen. There is something quite magnetic about Panerai. I must say that I've really caught the fever and I'm starting to really see why the Paneristi guys are so into the sport. You really have to try on the real thing to get a feel for it. Pics don't do them justice.

Just a couple of tips... Before I got mine, I searched google images for pics of the gens, kept them in a file and compared them. The big tells on this model are the crown guards and the bezel pearl. The middle links in the bracelet should be hollow. The non-date models that I have found don't have the hollow mid-links, probably because the demand for the non-date isn't as great as for the date. I would suggest to go with the dealers reccomended on this site. They are very reputable (despite the current whining by some spoiled members that don't know what they have here) and will deliver. For what it's worth, this is my favourite: vintage sub Hope that helps some. Good luck in your search.

It's always that damned recessed canon pinion. They are so close otherwise... it's just maddening to see it. That is all that is wrong with the 000 and the 005, since the back is SS. Even as close as the 111h gets, with the trouble that they have taken to get the bridges and swan neck right, it's still the short pinion. (yeah, yeah, the lume...don't even go there)