Demsey

Dems-

I thought it was Bike Mike?

YES!

You're a life saver Ubi. Frankly speaking? 'Search' scares me.

Demsey, I WISH I could do some analysis but the only "metalurgical" testing tool I have access to is a hardness tester!

Who was it then? 'Justasgood'? Crap, don't make me use 'Search'. For Christsakes.

@Hike,

Yeah? Well, I, uh, well, I got nothin' now, just better hope I don't log on drunk! Make a Marine cry.

The sausage dial PAMS (not here) are most impressive, but the first fifteen minutes of the Aquatimer inner bezel? That's just plain nuts.

In 13th century Florence, an established painter, Cimabue took on a young apprentice Giotto di Bondone, whom as a child was found by Cimabue painting sheep on a rock. They were so lifelike his talent was obvious and would not be wasted. In Cimabue's studio, Giotto painted a 'fly' so lifelike on Cimabue's working canvass that the master tried repeatedly to brush away the fly.

The Pope, having heard of the talent of the young man asked for a specimen of his work. Giotto presented a simple red circle. It was considered a slight to the pious Father, until is was revealed; the circle was drawn free handed and was considered by mathematicians in the Vatican to be 'perfect' when measured with a compass.

So. Yeah. 'Art'. Define it yourself.

I asked them what can be done for this.

What did they say?

I have had a similar experience as the 'receiver' of a package that went to the wrong destination via USPS. They rerouted the package and I got it ultimately. It is more cost effective to complete the forward than a return to sender.

Unfortunately, the USPS being a 'governement run' institution there is no motivation, pan wide, for good consideration for work ethic. If your package, luckily, falls into the hands of a conscientious worker, you will be OK. The fact it were 'lost' in the first place was due to an un-conscientious worker. Being 'governement employees' they will be paid come hell or high water, and know to have them 'fired' is almost impossible for PC reasons. Why the hell should they care then?

I am fortunate in that coming from a small town our postal workers are very prideful. They have their own code of ethic amoungst themselves. Unfortunately once a package leaves the jurisdiction, it's a crap shoot. What you may want to do, instead of calling on the telephone or approaching 'counter personel' ask to see/speak to a supervisor. It's amazing how the rhetoric will go from "Gee I just don't know", to "I will personally look into this, may I have your home phone number?" There's a reason they advanced to 'Supervisor' than having spent fourteen years behind the counter.

Good luck!

at least it hasn't done any harm by causing me to have seizures...aorin^R67f8quwb alng.ln ashdiofna...or other weird stuff...

OMG I laughed.

we've got lots of experience with that up here. When it gets bad enough it's called Cabin Fever and then there are rifles and Troopers involved.

OMG I laughed twice.

This is something, even as a Floridian, I suffer from. It's not so much the absense of the light as you may experience in the upper latitudes, but the percentage of time I am exposed to it.

What 'Nanuq' is to the Kodiak in lifestyle, I am to the American Alligator. I will work and lie in the heat when most will wilt like lettuce in the sun. I love it. Always have. It's why I moved here from New England. I've never been 'bed sick' since. It will fall on deaf ears to our Northern members but I think 40F is cold. I think 60F surf temperastures are cold. I choose not to surf, SCUBA or go boating when the morning low is 36F. We have that weather here in North Central FLA. I would always look forward to the holidays, but come March, I am not myself. I hate it. I always figured I was just a 'Summer' person. It wasn't until a few years ago I made the connection to the SAD tendency. I was just too much indoors. Like Bob suggests I would arrange activity and week-ends around all day outdoor activities; air shows, Indian Pow-Wows, camping, and bought a full wet-suit. All better now. I haven't brought the rifle out to the highway in years.

Let us know what the 'clinical study' here Mike. I would be quite interested.

Sure!

You need to 'Search' for 'XXXXXX Homage Watch' on Google. 'Mark V' makes some of the best homage watches there are. Warranty and Factory Support. Whoa.

for the majority of the people even your current method will not be that easy as most of the

reps do have some resemblance of the movement. It's until you start disassembling the

movement that things become more obvious but how many watch owners would do that?

i think the next chapter on this would be:

1. Take watch to local AD, have them inspect the movement....

True, if the replicas in question had ETA, Miyota, or Seagull etc., as OEM, Say Tag, Tudor, Seiko but the article and lecture(s) were focused on Rolex only. I am no horologist nor watchsmith, but Rolex and El Primero movements will scream their genuineness at a quick glance. They are that unique. Even to the neophyte. But sure, if ever in doubt go to a pro............................

But you are right, and I agreed in my post, there will come a day when yes, a capable and somewhat experienced watchsmith may be fooled with a cursory glance at an opened caseback to reveal a replica movement. It's already happening with 'lookalike' Rolex calibres available now. Sure the WIS here are glib as they see them as laughable knock-offs siting "Sure the rotor, main gears, bridges and engravings are good, but the balance [censored]? That is sooooo, ETA. These rep movements are a joke." However, if, 'out of the blue' four years ago someone had posted 'Rep or Real?' on RWG of the current copy movement(s), it would have been a day long debate. Most would have looked no further than the magenta main gears.

These current copy movements are merely part of the evolution. Three years ago Andrew unveiled a nickel ETA with red gears. We laughed. That was merely the first amphibian crawling out of the primordial ooze. The ones now have developed lungs. It will be interesting when we get to the Jurassic. By then maybe GAF with drop the meteorite that wasted them all.

Whenever the 'impossibility' of replica is brought up I go back to the day member 'Fast Freddy' (not to be confused with own own Freddy333) posted a 116520 with running seconds @ six and announced; "116520, Swiss 7750, fully functional chronos, correct subdial spacing and array, $2,900".

The world cried "[censored]" and even 'The Zigmeisterzumba' stated, "No way, it's impossible, if this is, it's not a 7750". Then he got ahold of one a member paid the premium for and sent him for dismantling. Oh, to have been on Rob's right shoulder the moment he cracked that open under a loup. The Asians, what have they done? They are mad!

Now? 116520, fully functioning chrono, correct subdial spacing and array, $238.

3135? Cake.

I would imagine it is the quality of the steel at the point of manufacture; impurities in the content form of iron. The steel, obviously from a Chinese source, originated Lord knows where. It is recycled more likely than not.

'lanikai' posted a topic not too long ago discussing the advantages or the hype of Rolex 904L that drew a lot of comment from members who work in metalurgy and associated industry. It was interesting.

I believe it were 'jmb' who planned on putting a well known watch case (MBW?) through scientific process to see what kind of 'crap' is really in there. Parts of Jimmy Hoffa no doubt.

I would imagine yes, the act of polishing the rehaut exposed the ferrous stuff and it rusted. In low grade stainless steel this is called 'bleeding'. Another polishing may remove the culprit altogether, but may raise others. I had a clasp rust once, I figured polishing it would be a ritual to keep the rust from coming back. After one polish with a Dremel, it never did. The 'vein' of ferrous particle(s) was buffed out altogether.

Perhaps if you repolish the rehaut but only concentrate on the affected areas you may resolve the issue.

Interesting.

If it's not Scottish, it's crap!

Welcome..........

And maybe ine day we reach at a point where the gens copy the reps!!!

The nicest Vacheron I have ever seen was a 'fantasy' model that 'TTK' had only 10X to sell. It was a corruption of the Malte Classique, black linen dial, arabic cardinal numerals and stick markers, but had the date @ 6 a` la the Patrimony, black croc w/deployant. My God it was magnificent. It was the only watch I contacted 'TTK' to source. I missed the boat but it was a running joke between the two of us; if he came across another, it would be the one deal we would do. Alas.

There will come a time, mark my words, that the exterior of the 'replica' will be of little discussion to the WIS. The rhetoric will be;

"It's OK for the money, the magenta is correct on the gears, but if they really want to pass it off as gen 3135 they should do a little more research into the 'Incabloc' system. The system in your photo is so obviously Etachoc. I mean c'mon, who do they think they are fooling?"

Well...it seems to have up to date info on how to spot a rep

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rolex_or_replica.html

Yeah, that's funny j. Those 'tells' in your link may have been bonafide in '04, but now? Laughable. All of those flaws have been adressed. Most of them; years and years ago.

Here's the current 'Demsey' replica watch lecture syllabus;

1) open caseback, identify the movement, proceed with proper course of action.

And considering the current trend(s) with regard, my course will be updated in a few years. It will include the proper handling and use of a mass spectrometer for idenitfying steel grade and purity.

I think it looks great dt, all here do, but it's not a 'no brainer'. I tried 'croc' on all my black faced Rolex Sports and they all looked like junk except the GMTII;

I think it works here, but on the 16613? CRAP! YUK!

With regard nothing beats a white dial 16520 or 116520 on brown leather/other hide. So much so, Rolex offers(ed) as such as an option from factory. Yum.

I agree it has to be robust but I think 12,000 feet for the Deepsea is overkill.

from WikiAnswers.

A Navy diver submerged 2,000 feet (609.6 m), setting a record using the new Atmospheric Diving System (ADS hardshell suit), off the coast of La Jolla, CA, on Aug. 1 2007.

The deepest open circuit scuba dive was accomplished by Pascal Bernabé (Ralf Tech/WR1 Team) who on July 5, 2005 descended to 1,083 feet (330 m). The dive took place near Propriano, Corsica.

Based on this info a Rolex Sea-dweller with its 4000 feet depth rating is more than good enough.

A good point(s) and has been the subject of many discussions here, and there.

The 'static' rating of depth resistance (what watch makers use as standard) is perhaps less an equation of 'marketing' than it is of practical engineering. Firstly, the mere act of 'swimming' will, for the milli-second a watch enters the water on a stroke, produce enough dynamic pressure on a watch case equal to three atmospheres of 'static' pressure. Considering that, what would you suppose the dynamic pressure of falling off water skis? Bailing off an inflatable? Helo? Oil rig?

Secondly, there is an overkill of design to address three major variable factors; temperature, repitition of pressure cycles, and time. All these variables will decay the ability of a watch to perform up to it's design potential. The design depth rating is an 'overkill' to ensure safety, in a watch marketed as a 'tool' watch for professionals.

The issue in and of itself has caused the term;'water proof' to have been since retired in lieu of 'water resistant'.

The term "waterproof" was discontinued starting in the late 1960's. This change was brought about from several government organizations, including the Federal Trade Commission in the USA, who were investigating truthfulness and accuracy of product labeling and advertising.

"Waterproof" was considered to have misrepresented the products as more capable of preventing the entry of water under normal use circumstances than they were actually capable of. Specifically, diving-type watches never have been completely 'proof' of water entry under normal use and within the stated depth ratings. The seals that keep water out are not completely impervious and their effectiveness can be reduced over time with age, deterioration, and exposure to chemicals.

The term "water resistant" is now used to describe such watches. There are no technical differences between a waterproof watch and a water resistant watch--they use the exact same methods and technologies to keep water out. The difference is only in what term was considered to appropriate to describe it at the time it was made.

If I were a commercial diving engineer doing repetitive nitrox dives to 300+ft, I would want a watch rated to at least 10X for the sake of my life on the side of gross safety. If I were a commercial diving engineer watch maker supplying and advertising a product to the general public for work to and below 300+ft I would engineer on the side of gross safey for the sake of my life (livelihood).

Thank God. For evolving man, to the point where he discovered the technology that led to the 9V stortage battery, and then the independant smoke detector. Unfortunately for some, too latent after he discovered the technology to make 'fire'.

I would consider this a 'happy ending' in spite of the obvious. There are few things in this world that frighten me to the point where I will often dwell on the prospect. 'Out of Control Fire' is at the top of the list.

Bless the Fire Fighters. Glad you are all OK HB. You did well.

Ehhh... I resemble that remark...

thank you Dems... that's the nicest thing you've said to me in a while.. since your hang ova subsided that is..

btw.. I didn't read your post before typing mine so's I guess that means we're sorta on the same page.. *scary thought he say's to himself***

Lani

Yes, it is always good practice to question one's position when agreeing with 'Demsey'. Fall back, regroup and rethink. If you come up with anything contrary yet concrete, please get back to me. By PM if I'm that far off base. I however, am bumping this thread as 'lanikai' is in agreement with said 'Demsey'. 'Image' is everything.

@Horologist

OK, all clear now. It would seem the winding system is working, and then the mainspring losing it's reserve 'all at once'. Perhaps the ratcheting funtion of the clutch wheel portion of the system has failed. A theory only, I am no watchsmith certainly.

Please keep us informed as to the collector's course and the mechanics of the repair if you are privy. How we all may learn.

Best o' luck................

It were Irish Car Bombs made with Bushmills (hold the Bailey's for the wife ) P4, and I chased away the cordite the next morning with a few Bull Shots.

Yeah, I was a wreck. Got caught up in the whole 'Veteran's Day' thing with family:

It worked out as 'Ida' gave me the end of the week off. Took full advantage.

Great thread, would have missed it if not for Tom's bump and I spotted it on the mainpage. I rarely venture into the 'Gentlemen's Lounge'. My shoes are always muddy.

Freeman, you're funny. You're 'johnnyboy' and I collect my $5.

Omni, if I could do one last great thing in this world it would be an 'Ice Cream Headache' from a Red Devil Martini. Oh yeah.

WTF is everyone being so nice.

Yeah, sometimes this board gives me a tooth ache. Meh, there's always road rage and Glocks in the non-virtual.

This one is my favorite today

Yeah, that IWC is classic. I never had an IWC rep. I lose.

Sure, you can change your mind.

Thanks W!

lol, I love posting drunk, the whole next week is like finding Easter eggs.

OK, this is my 'new' favorite rep;

Another dead-end of the evolution of 'replica'. Albeit TWB, a purdy lousy version of the SD (@ the noobs; the rehaut should not be deep on the SD, only the Sub, no matter what replica 'marketing' may profess. "Deep Rehaut" is not a boast, it's a flaw. The presence of the HEV system raises the movement within the case) but brings fond memories. Another 'Eddie Lee' piece, in '04 this topped the list (Base's Top Ten) of the 'best' Rolex reps. When I ordered from Eddie, he asked me to do a full review with pics. I did, and he sold a bucket of them. For some odd reason every issue prior had a misaligned 12 o'clock marker, toward the first 'tick'. This run corrected that and boasted 'close' crown guards that even 'By-Tor' got excited about. In spite of an HEV that looks like a plug nickel, this was a rave......................

......... but after it stopped rotating on being stationary accross my ear, I could also hear some very fine ratchet noise for some seconds.

I follow you until this ^^^^^ portion of the sentence. Can you no longer hear the rotor spin? Occaisionally, well, often in replica, the rotor screw will back off and you can hear it rattle within the case. However, the watch may still run and can be hand wound. Sometimes, and perhaps in your case, the rotor screw backed off and the scew is interfering with the balance wheel and has siezed the movement. An easy fix for a watchsmith, and for you too, if you are willing to try. If it is indeed the rotor screw, removing the caseback would be the biggest obstacle. Accomplishing that, the 'repair' would merely involve a 2mm screw driver to reinstall the screw. Not familiar with the Cartier case design however, so I cannot advise with regard to opening the watch.

You are correct in assumimg this would certainly warrant a 'return' and again correct in assuming it may be more worth your while to have it repaired locally; shipping costs, customs, time, etc.,...........if you do decide to take on the responsibility, confer with your dealer first, and suggest a 'discount' on a future purchase or some other sort of compensation for your trouble. That is 'fair' and has been my experience.

Good luck!

HA! Take that 'Lanikai' you 'Today's Top Poster' post [censored]! YEAH!!

......... but after it stopped rotating on being stationary accross my ear, I could also hear some very fine ratchet noise for some seconds.

I follow you until this ^^^^^ portion of the sentence. Can you no longer hear the rotor spin? Occaisionally, well, often in replica, the rotor screw will back off and you can hear it rattle within the case. However, the watch may still run and can be hand wound. Sometimes, and perhaps in your case, the rotor screw backed off and the scew is interfering with the balance wheel and has siezed the movement. An easy fix for a watchsmith, and for you too, if you are willing to try. If it is indeed the rotor screw, removing the caseback would be the biggest obstacle. Accomplishing that, the 'repair' would merely involve a 2mm screw driver to reinstall the screw. Not familiar with the Cartier case design however, so I cannot advise with regard to opening the watch.

You are correct in assumimg this would certainly warrant a 'return' and again correct in assuming it may be more worth your while to have it repaired locally; shipping costs, customs, time, etc.,...........if you do decide to take on the responsibility, confer with your dealer first, and suggest a 'discount' on a future purchase or some other sort of compensation for your trouble. That is 'fair' and has been my experience.

Good luck!

Another thing to consider, many dive watches with deep ratings have thick cases so they don't deform under pressure. I read a test that took several deep divers to max pressure in a lab, and the casebacks on some deformed enough to stop the watch. So I consider a 1665 or early Doxa with their thick engraved backs as just part of what was needed in the era before dive computers... if it absolutely positively HAS to run to time your dive, then you gotta do what it takes to protect that little mechanical heart.

Yup. Also why the Sea Dweller has no cyclops; it would pop off due to the flex of the crystal............

Speaking of which, from another thread started by 'thogaa' that gets my "Post of the Day" award (the proceeds of which, along with $4.25 will get you a Frappuccino from Starbucks):

You couldn't bend it with a Land Rover

Swap them Pho.

As in; swap the bands with the heads. I think the black w/red stitch should go on the PVD case...........

Swap them Pho.

If you had one of those in the condition that one is in, you could pay off your mortgage and probably have a bit left over! that is a rare piece. i would suspect finding one of those would be a long and very, very expensive process.

Roger that.

http://bjsonline.com/watches/articles/0022_4.shtml

Rolex cal. 1000. Whoa.

But, Nanuq, those single blade Bic's are the worst God-awful things.

But being a Scoutmaster, and, as always; 'ready', the Bic can be inverted and the hollow end blown into as an emergency whistle, or bear deterrent. It can also accompany the troop on sing-a-longs...............

OK everybody, you know you want to; sing to the tune of God Bless America (Doc, try to keep tempo this time)

God bless my underwear, my only pair.

Stand beside them, and guide them,

Through the rips, through the holes, through the tears.

From the washer, to the dryer, to my backpack, to my rear.

God bless my underwear, my only pair.

God bless my underwear, or I'll be bare.

God bless my underwear

That I wear down there.

I outgrow them, then throw them,

Those who wear them will never be square

When the bully, gives a wedgie

Pray that they won