PAMman

If you gather together all the right bits you can assemble an excellent 202A, but it won't be cheap or easy. However the satisfaction of having even one really accurate piece is a reward for the effort it takes.

Typically, I like to as well. However, I have this sweet vintage Dirk Deluxe with Pre-V style logo buckle I'd like to use on a future project. Only problem is the case is polshed and the buckle is PVD...

Jimmy case:

Hi Ubi,

Can you confirm the source of that 'Dirk' strap / buckle? I have one similar but I understand that there is a major question mark over these.

I dont think that the crown in question is a spring loaded one, if the crown and stem are still solid together then it may be damage to the winding pinion and clutch wheel. But beacause you say the lever is now loose it leads me to believe that the crown has screwed down tighter on the stem making is shorter and then makeing the winding pinion and clutch wheel not fit together well

I know that it's only a theory, but I tend to favour the view that the crown may have tightened on the stem and is now too short to engage properly. When you have experienced the same problem with a different (PVD) stem & crown it doesn't neccessarily prove anything, as the alternative stem & crown may never have been a suitable length. To test this 'short stem' theory, remove the 'O' ring from the base of the original crown and re-try it. This will give you the extra length which may sort the problem. At least it should eliminate this possibility.

The micro Q7 looks like a really believable concept for a Smart. That would sell for sure.

Yeah, just got mine earlier in the week. These really are the 'mutts nuts' and well worth all the effort. However, be warned they really are limited in number.

The caseback on this rep matches the dial - what I mean is that most, if not all, watches with this dial didn't have the globe engraved. The globe came later.

Excellent review and pics. I have just bought a gen chrono Avenger and this would be a worthy stable mate. Need to sell my !st generation Chrono Avenger rep first though to free up funds, but I think I know what's next on the list. Thanks for the inspiration.

In my experience the Swiss ETA and the Asian copy are 100% interchangable.

Love it Kostas - love this era tobacco / titanium so much that I bought a F116 so I have the base equivalent of yours, to pair up with my 'long arrow' 005. Enjoy it.

I've sent you a pm.

Just look twice, it could be just the same as the new DSN dial...

It's not the same. DSN's has the 'low-bar' A and different 12, 3 etc

I have a gen black SMP plus a rep Bond and rep PO. I would definitely go for the SMP gen rather than the PO for a number of reasons. The SMP is classier and feels better quality, probably because of the smooth bezel profile and slimmer design. I am also more confident that the 'classic' Bond SMP will stand the test of time better than the trendier PO. The size of the SMP is less likely to go out of fashion too. Enjoy your gen whatever you choose.

The listing has been removed so I guess you were correct.

I totally agree that an original Moonwatch, i.e. regular handwind Speedy Pro with solid caseback, should be one of the first on the list of gen buys. I bought mine on Ebay at 2-3 months old, without any sign of having been worn, at about 65% of the retail price at the time. Buy the best you can at the best price you can and you should never experience any depreciation. IMO the only watch that you can be confident will retain its appeal in the long term is one that already has done just that. There are few that can match the Speedy in this respect - even the Submariner has changed and been updated more than once in the Speedy's lifetime.

These are great watches and well worth modding, but what is the brushed case all about? Are you going to try to polish this case or swap it for another?

That's the worst shape of case & CGs ever, and there have been many variations.

Some of the above methods should get the back off but I'm more curious about the 'movement' of the movement. Even if the clamps aren't tight or too short and not doing their job, when the crown is screwed in this should hold the movement firmly in place. If there is still a noise it may simply be the rotor spinning. When the crown is unscrewed the dial will floating about if the movement is loose so it should be easy to determine the problem without removing the caseback.

I honestly don't know Ross. The best preV shape case that I have was my first Panerai rep, a 005 from EL, which had a sapphire crystal without any ARish coating and best of all it had the (incorrect for a 005) very accurate 5218/201A caseback. Just made for boring out the lugs and dropping a logo dial into. It's with The Zigmeister at present to assemble with a gen G series CG and a CdG striped ETA 6497, similar to the real deal. The finished article should be the best we can achieve with the currently available dials.

As far as the cases are concerned I don't know if there is a variety of shapes available from different sources at the same time or whether different batches have varied in an attempt to get closer to the correct current shape. From my experience I would suggest that you try a WTB for an early 005 with the incorrect caseback etc. BTW, this caseback is a very accurate replication of the 5218/201A and carries the same serial number as 'Mr Yellow's' gen. I have often suspected that the case and caseback may have been replicated by someone who had direct access to that actual watch as both items are accurate to that particular gen. AFAIK that gen watch lived in the same part of the world as the rep factories and before I discovered the rep community I can remember that a replica 5218/201A dial was also available. It was not engraved but otherwise was reasonable accurate and was available on ioffer (possibly from River) about 4 or 5 years ago. I may still have a pic somewhere.

If you want to think of a used gen as an alternative can I suggest a 1990s Omega Dynamic (date or chrono), sometimes referred to as an RAF. On its bracelet it looks super on a lady while it is a tad on the small side for a man, by current standards. It's an absolute cracking watch and can be picked up quite cheaply because of the size issue for men. As far as I can remember it was promoted by Cindy Crawford and looked great on ladies back then. For the price of a high end rep you can get a peach of a gen.

I have obviously missed an earlier thread - what is the nature of your business / what do you do?

No leads but I would suggest that you look for a 01B rep instead. It includes all of the features that you're looking for but has the added advantage of a closed caseback and can have a 100% unmolested Swiss ETA 6497 movement like the gen. It's much more accurate than the F series rep and will be more reliable in the long term.

In regard to the link LegendofSpeed provided in this thread, I see two different crowns in the 8 photos (two of the photos are of identical watches the PAM009A).

201A, 036, and 001A have the same crown thickness and teeth. This looks like the 48 teeth crown to me.

The pre-A 002, pre-A 009 pre-A 001, 002A, and 009A have the same crown. These look like the 52 teeth crown to me.

In my eyes I think they are definitely two different crown manufacturers being told to produce them during Officine Panerai, and during the first 2 years where Richmont first took over.

Here is an example of gen 5218-203A where there were roughly 200 made. If you look at the first two photos and the last photo, you can clearly tell that even with a single model pre-V there are two different crown on this watch. I can pull up some photos of pre-V 5218-207A where you can see this same difference in crown. I cannot tell you exactly how many teeth are on there but there is a clear difference in the number of teeth on there.

But from what people are saying are on their more recent manual wind PAMs. It should be fairly easy to deduce that the 52 teeth crown manufacturer was cut by Richmont. If you want try and determine the validity of the crowns being gen or not thats up to you guys to determine. I see these 52 teeth manual Ti and 52 teeth auto PVD/SS as being gen until proven otherwise.

I have a large collection of photos of genuine watches, mostly collected from the 'Risti forum over the past few years. This collection includes a large number of 5218/201A pics and it is clear that at least 2 different crowns were used. There is a distinct variation in width, with the majority having a crown that appears to be thicker than the later Vendome models. However a significant minority have a narrower crown similar to the preA to current series of watches. Whether these variations had a different number of teeth I have no idea but it is possible. I have been unable to establish whether the narrower crowns were fitted to watches with lower or higher numbers in the series or even if this is any indication of production dates.

"I just want a watch that I can wear everyday, will look great on a bracelet or a strap, and something I can hand down to my kid one day."

A watch that you can hand down to your kid one day will need to be a timeless classic and one which looks good on both a strap or bracelet narrows it down somewhat - IMO that rules out most if not all Rolex as they generally don't look good an a strap. You have suggested Omega , Rolex or Panerai. I love Panerai and have 2 gens together with a small collection of franken or heavily modded reps. However I don't like any Panerai on bracelets as I think that all models look best on straps and I am not sure if the attraction of Panerai will stand the test of time so that your kid will appreciate them as much as we do now. Crystal ball territory I know, but I doubt that their appeal will be as universal as time goes on.

That leaves Omega - which model can you wear everyday, will look great on a bracelet or a strap, and something that is already sufficiently classic that you can anticipate handing down to your kid one day? For me that must be a Speedy Pro. A minty used example is well within your range, probably at the bottom end of it and it ticks all the boxes. I bought mine at approx 4 months old and no evidence that it was ever worn at all. I paid about 55% - 60% of the retail price at that time as they had taken a price rise between the time the original owner had bought and sold it to me. I removed the unworn bracelet and have worn it on a custom 'period' rally style strap and aftermarket deployant ever since. I would expect to be able to get a profit today if I wanted to sell and I don't think that many other watches will match the 'timeless' quality of the Speedy.

With the V CG and the new 48 teeth T crown we can make an almost perfect manual wind PAM like the PAM000 or PAM005. We only need a dial with correct logo, thickness of numbers and correct placed "L SWISS MADE L".

Does anyone have a tip regarding the dial or is that the sad part...?

'L SWISS L' is correct for the G series and the early part of the H series 000 & 005. 'L SWISS MADE L' follwed.

I bought a genuine B&R 03-94 and I love it. This looks great and it certainly hurt the pocket a lot less.