Timelord
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Posts posted by Timelord
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On 2/26/2024 at 12:21 PM, automatico said:
I had a pallet fork war with a Rlx cal 1210 a while back...broken arbor. I broke it.
I have done that too on occasions. The first time, I said I would not do it again, but it still happened, especially if you think it is in the pivot after rocking it back and forth, only to slightly fall out of place when placing the bridge. Even when you check it with the bridge on just before tightening the screw, you will still find that it can go out of alignment. That has happened to me as well !!! However, 99 out of 100 times no problems.
Finding a replacement is not always easy regardless of if it is labelled to be the same by supplier. I have had that problem too!!! Felsa 690 and Felsa 692 are an example on top of my head, as they are factory labelled to be the same but one has a thinner pivot than the other! Even an eta 2836-2 has the same seconds wheel part number as the 2824-2 but the former is slightly higher to counteract the day wheel.
What is worse is trying to find nylon case back seals that came with older 1950/60s watches. Sure enough they are all rubber now!! but I have a case where the back seal sits just below where the case thread rim presses on when screwed down. If it is a rubber seal, it will not work as rubber compresses and deteriorates. If you close the back without this hardened seal, the rotor hits the inside back.. At first I though that it had the wrong back on it. but old school watchmaker said to me that the hardened seals were tempered for this measure!!!
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Last month I posted for some assistance on an issue regarding to having to remove balance to get movement working ?
Well I believe I owe it to all you guys, especially to those replying with possible solutions.
Upon going through it with a fine tooth comb, I found the culprit! It was the bent base of the pallet fork as seen in this image. I have circled it in a fine blue circle, I straightened it and it now works good! Just thought it would be something to watch out for, if ever one is a similar situation as it wasn’t so obvious at first Thanks for your help guys!
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21 hours ago, freddy333 said:
If the mainspring is slipping, then most likely either the spring is slipping on the mainspring arbor, the click or click spring may be loose or defective, or the escape wheel is slipping past the pallets.
I am inclined to agree that you may have just about nailed it! I was contemplating on the click and the escape wheel! The movement ran 24 hours really well on a close to full manual wind ( just with enough turns of the crown to avoid the slip) without the automatic assembly .
As soon as I wound it fully with an extra couple of turns, it stopped just a few hours later ! I then jiggled the balance and seemed as it had locked as if Impulse jewel had misaligned, but I then realised it wasn’t the case ! I noticed that it had just enough swing to slightly rock the pallet fork as balance wheel was swinging very rapidly backwards and forth with no real action! I then jiggled the escape wheel with a fine oiler and bingo it fired uo! So my guess is that the impulse jewel never got out of line at all as if it were the case, then the movement would not have run! Right? Unless there is something I do not know about impulse jewels and the balance wheel/pallet fork combo!
Your other information has indirectly helped me solve an issue with two other movements which had me baffled for months if not close to years! Great suggestions and highly appreciated! Something you would not get on some watchmaking forums! A world of thanks!
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On 1/29/2024 at 4:45 AM, automatico said:
"Can you suggest ant cheaper alternative one dips that you may know of?"
One Dip is 1, 1, 1 - Trichloroethane aka methyl chloroform, (chemical formula CH3CCl3). Dangerous stuff, but not as bad if used outside (upwind) in an open area as it evaporates very rapidly.
Some say common (also dangerous) dry cleaning fluid aka 'perc' will also work and is easier to get.
From the website 'Love to Know'...
Perchloroethylene Dry Cleaning Fluid
In the early 1930s, the United States dry cleaning industry began using the solvent perchloroethylene, which is nonflammable. Commonly referred to as perc, perchloroethylene is also known as:
Perchloroethylene
PCE
Tetrachloroethylene
Tetrachloroethene
Using perchloroethylene became the favored method of dry cleaners and in the late 1950s. It is a chlorinated solvent that removed dirt and stains without water. According to the Center for Disease Prevention and Control (CDC), 85 percent of the 36,000 dry cleaning shops in the United States use this chemical.Thanks for response! You would need a good well ventilated area away from other people! Our dry cleaning establishments once used carbon tetrachloride as a dry cleaning fluid! It was later banned according to my knowledge because it was detrimental to some of the internal organs! I think with young children around snooping, I will leave these in another place! Good to know though!
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On 1/29/2024 at 12:16 AM, kidcreole said:
I assume there's still power in the system once the movement stops as resetting the hairsping gets it going again. Therefore we can assume escape wheel back is healthy?
I'd be inspecting the hairspring and pallet fork pivots along with their jewels. Also the pallet fork end that contacts the impulse jewel and banking pins.
Most importantly when it is in fault state wiggle the hairspring and pallet fork it may give extrta clues what's going on. The shake is likely dislodging something in that area.
On 1/29/2024 at 5:03 AM, freddy333 said:Presuming the entire movement is clean/properly oiled/demagnetized -- it sounds like either the cap jewels are dirty/worn (remove/inspect/clean/oil), the balance [censored]/bridge is not properly seated or the hairspring is hanging-up on an adjacent component (ie when the movement is moved/shaken).
If/when you eliminate the 1st 2 issues, I would remove the balance, remove the hairspring from the staff (use a small screwdriver to slide the hairspring collet off the staff) -- then re-attach the loose hairspring to the [censored]/bridge & allow it to sit on top of the [censored]/bridge. Inspect the hairspring's positioning for flatness/proper centering over the [censored]/bridge (if the collet does not naturally sit directly over the cap jewel holder in the [censored]/bridge, you will need to reshape the hairspring so that it does). There is a good guide on TZ that you may find helpful.Correct as needed or post a few macros of the hairspring (attached to & sitting on top of the [censored]/bridge) so I can see its condition/position.
Gentlemen,
thank you for your input! I have purposely delayed my response to buy more time for further observations! The movement has been cleaned twice and the cap jewels have also been oiled with the right amount of oil for both top and bottom of the staff pivots! There is plenty of power in mainspring , Checked the pallet stones and pallet fork including the impulse jewel! All appears good! The pallet fork looks sharp and unscathed! The escape wheel freely spins with rest of gear train very nicely with pallet out! I even checked the roller table to make sure it wasn’t pressed in!
The balance bridge is sitting flat and balance wheel is paralel to hairspring motion with no play or wobbles! .
My original suspicion was the pallet stones as I had been worried that I may have left the pallet fork in cleaning fluid for too long , but it was engaging well and flush with the escape wheel teeth!
it has been running nicely for a good 30 hours even after several severe shakes!However, what I did notice is that as soon as I have lightly shaken the watch to get as many winds as possible, you can hear a slip in mainspring, almost feeling as watch has unwound! It is a few hours after this that the impulse jewel falls outside the balance fork. Or presumably that is what it feels like, this is my real suspicion.
On 1/29/2024 at 5:03 AM, freddy333 said:Yes I have seen that post! I believe the OP was asking about swapping balance wheels on two different bridges of the same caliber where he wanted the good spring on the bridge with the incabloc instead of the bridge having the kif spring! I don’t think he ever got his question understood
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Hello guys
I just serviced an older 2783 which I was going to use in one of the explorer cases and it has been running really well for q good 24 hours! Also very accurate.
I noticed that when I shake it to wind the automatic, the movement stops after a couple of hours! I then opened it up to see what the issue was and noticed that balance wheel did not oscillate! I remove the balance bridge to reset it and presto it fired back upto the way it was running!
At first I thought that I may not have tightened the balance bridge screw down enough making pallet bridge out from impulse !
It ran well for another 24 hours until I gave it a few gentle shakes to get it wound! This time it stopped some 6 hours later after having kept it in the same stationary position all that time! Again I had to reposition the balance to get it gin
is this a new curve in my learning experience of watch repairs? Maybe out of my forte/ as an amateur. Please chime in with any suggestions, ideas, insults or whatever can get me to try to find out what is happening! My many many thanks!
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On 1/10/2024 at 9:22 AM, TheHoodwink said:
if you want a cheaper alternative to one dip, they exist
thank you for your response! Can you suggest ant cheaper alternative one dips that you may know of ? Thanks in sdvance -
18 hours ago, lauryfriese said:
To find an updated list of trusted dealers or get information on how to contact them, I recommend visiting reliable watch forums, online communities, or websites dedicated to the specific watch brands you are interested in. These platforms often have active discussions and updated lists of trusted dealers that enthusiasts can refer to. Drift Boss
Thank you for your input!! I guess by your response that this site is not a reliable watch forum ? Just like many others, I am well aware of other forums that have a list of reputable dealers such as rolexforums.com, vintagerolexforum.com, timezone.com etc. etc etc having a great list of very good trusted dealers!!!!. I also knew a list of very highly trusted dealers here dealing with the types of timepieces discussed here which is the list that I was hoping to see!!.
BTW I have noticed that this is your second post. and in case you haven't introduced yourself in the introduction section, Welcome aboard!!
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On 8/28/2023 at 5:09 PM, Ronin said:
It’s an odd place. I had a post locked and was admonished for posting a link to a post on another (reputable) watch forum.
Don't get me started as your experience is on a similar path to mine! I wasn't posting any links or anything of that kind. It was just the attitude and childish abusive comments that were posted in response to my post. I don't need to say more!!! Who knows, it may have improved with time, but I am not game enough to risk going back for round 2!!
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In addition to this forum ( my favorite of course!!!!) I belong to Timezone.com, Rolexforums.com, vintagerolexforum.com Omegaforums.net and watcuseek.com.
As I get most of my answers here I now rarely post on those other forums. This forum is like a second home to me as most members I have acquainted here and many others that also post are top notch as they know what they are talking about and appear to have a very cultured background extending beyond just horology!! With the exception of a handful of members on other forums, I find that most of the members on those forums are not as savvy nor as open minded as most of the members here.
This forum for me has been a quality education as well !!!
My worst experience was on watchuseek.com and I have not posted there in over 12 years. It may have got better over time but I still call this place my watch home!!
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Am absolutely speechless! Candy for my eyes!
Did you print the dial yourself as the fonts of the “Swiss made<T “ look far better than any attempt I tried when I attempted it with my old graphics program ? -
15 hours ago, horologist said:
This is the biggest flaw I hate about divers watches in general regardless of if they are some high collectible rare Milsub or a cheap pulsar at the local fuel station!
I hate the fact that quality stainless steel screw down crowns are hard to get regardless of brand!
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I think the screw down crown is really only useful for deep diving if you are a diver. Would you really take a 5 digit figure $ watch or a high quality replica to go diving? I wouldn't!!! . Most watches that are water resistant to some 50 meters also pass the pressure test without a screw down crown and I don't even think to go below 10 meters when swimming. I would be happy with a good quality crown with good seals that seal nicely around the case tube and its fine with me. You would change the seals of the crown or even the crown and tube at each service anyway.
This marketing hype of a screw down crown on a mechanical watch that need s to be adjusted every 28 days for the calendar setting at minimum even if your watch was as accurate as a quartz watch would wear out the threads very quickly!! A junk feature really unless you have a full jar of spares!!!
I would never unscrew my crown and just shake the watch at the time it has stopped to get it going at the right time and crown would last forever. The date would only serve as a cosmetic so I would be better off with a non date submariner if I really cringed for the screw down crown as a fetish that I needed to have!!!
I agree they are a nuisance especially when unavailable as spares!
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17 hours ago, portofino said:
We have introduced two new dealers already and there will be more coming in the near future, stay posted for this. Additionally there are new sales rules (and moderators) in place in order to make everything more standardised and clean to read and list. You can find the rules in the corresponding sale sections.
The two newly introduced dealers are pasted below:https://rwg.cc/forum/372-jtime/
https://rwg.cc/forum/360-ctime/
This is the most practical news I have received so far.
Nice to know that there are more that can cater to our needs.
Is there any information on if any of the previous dealers are still in the game, only because some of the accessories would only be suitable for their merchandise.
For example, I had a problem with some bracelets purchased from different dealers did not fit the timepieces bought elsewhere. I had this issue with a case purchased from Yuki made for an eta 2836-2 not fitting any bracelet bought anywhere else.
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I often see the following movement in the picture with the letters NN under the balance wheel! Is it a Nh35 or a dg2813?.
The NN seems confusing as one may think it would stand for NH 35?
Would the dial feet be the same for both movements? Anyone have any experience with these interchanges? Thanks!
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17 hours ago, automatico said:
"Do any of you that service your own movements also clean both pivot holes of where the balance staff sits in with peg wood after rinse?"
I have also seen instructions that say to 'peg out' all hole jewels but I usually skip that part because I use an ultrasonic cleaning machine and have not had any trouble going this route.
I
6 hours ago, freddy333 said:I generally do not directly oil the balance staff pinions, since they are lubricated (by the oil within the end stones) once fitted back onto the movement.
Keep in mind that if you ask 10 watchmakers their procedures, you are likely to get at least 6 variations back. Over time, most tend to learn what works best for their needs & level of perfectionism.
guys thanks for your input!I always wondered why the only oil applied when oiling this setup was just that concentric drop sandwiched between the two mating jewels held by capillary action and nothing underneath where the tip of the balance staff rotates on the outside of bottom jewel This was always a mystery to me!
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Do any of you that service your own movements also clean both pivot holes of where the balance staff sits in with peg wood after rinse?
I have never seen any servicing videos of when this section is done! All I have seen is how the two stones are separated and a drop of oil is placed to cover a concentric section of the flat part of the jewel and then the two are joined together held by capillary forces!
is the balance staff end tips oiled with an oiler or does one oil the pivot holes immediately after having oiled the midsection of the mating end stones?
any thoughts on this?
thanks!
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I have been going through some of the sticky threads and noticed the list of trusted dealers including those who that are no longer current or out of the game. Is there an updated link of who is still around and how to contact them? Thanks
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Saw this on eBay!
ebay offers buyer protection, so may have been the sale of the century or. An you still scam on ebay
Item number
eBay item number:325590802743
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3 hours ago, freddy333 said:
The Etachron instructional video posted previously is a good guide. Did you try it?
That video is the best explanation and possibly the only one I have seen on the net which goes beyond the full 9 yards! It confirms my long suspicion that TWO adjustments need to be made, both; with the rotation of the stud block to get the gap between the regulator pins and then the rotation of the regulator block to get the speed of the bouncing hair spring. It is the first time I have seen or heard on any watch information source about rotating the stud block for centring the hair spring which I had a hunch that the new design of the block was for this reason! The older studs were fixed by a screw which did not allow this fine adjustment! This makes the etachron so special in terms of accuracy when compared to the previously used fixed regulator pins !
My problem was figuring out if there was an issue with the new genuine hair spring as I had made different adjustments of the stud block rotation to get the hair spring dead centre between regulator pins or whether I was doing something wrong falsely believing I had it right in the centre. If it was pilot error then I know I have a good hair spring, if there is some issue with the hair spring then I could be chasing my tail forever! I posted to reach out to anyone having changed a balance on their etachron and if they ran into similar problems ! This is what can make or break a persons zeal to move on!
I had made something similar to the tool described in the video, but my last adjustment and regulation has varying positional gains where the best rate is when watch is sitting up with bottom lugs at right angles to the table with a gain of +1 secs/day!
The worst is crown down -25 secs/day!A big thank you to you and all others who have responded!
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2 hours ago, freddy333 said:
Ebay 265389584078 or 254991498290
The first one is exactly the one I bought which has been a nightmare for me to adjust and regulate, which was the main reason for my post! These are the balance and hairspring only ! Not the complete bridge and balance!I was referring to the genuine complete balance and bridge to do away with all this adjusting! When I purchased my last one a few years ago it came already fully timed like the one in the attachment ! They are no longer available and you cannot do away without having to go through the headache of adjusting before regulation! Yes generic complete units are available but they are a hit or a miss ( more a miss )! The last generic one I bought., the roller jewel fell off! So the most economical option i see is a new movement! No watchmaker will just regulate the adjust the balance for half a a day without him servicing! Cheaper that with replacement of two movements as Horologist has wisely mentioned
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2 hours ago, freddy333 said:
Most ETA balances &/or hairsprings are still available, so why not just replace the hairspring or balance without the [censored]/bridge?
What is the caliber model?
Yes the balances come with the hairspring as one piece ( but not with the bridge) which I picked up from a seller in .France for USD35d delivered which was in genuine eta packet! I just wished they came already attached to the balance bridge ( or balance kock) already calibrated! The hardest part is getting the brass block at the right orientation so that the hairspring breathes between the pins, but before that you need to get hairspring dead centre in the regulator pins when snapping stud into stud arm. If you don’t you get insane positional variation and no chance of regulation! You will be chasing your tail endlessly! To get it right you really need a special tool to do this with some hour hand on the tool as a visual guide so you can see how far you turn it! Not for the faint hearted!If it came like the generic ones as a complete bridge and balance/hairspring, one could avoid this headache! I saw a complete genuine bridge and balance for a Breitling in a yellow casing which the wanted USD85. For a extra 40 dollars you can get a complete genuine movement!
To answer your question, it is a. Eta 2824-2! When they are factory timed, the accuracy is amazing almost chronometer standard
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7 hours ago, freddy333 said:
Did you overhaul the movement (including pegging all of the jewels) before replacement? It sounds like you have a gummy or worn cap jewel that is affecting timing when the balance is running on that jewel.
Yes, this all started after I serviced movement that had original balance and hairspring which ran to +3, +5 to +7 secs/day in different positions!
What happened next! I lost the case clamp and tried to make another one when I made it too long and whilst trying to fit it in, I slipped with screw driver straight into the hairspring distorting it in several inner coils! That was the start of a huge headache leading to now!
I had tried to fix original hairspring but never was exactly the same to what it was so I decided to replace it as they no longer sell genuine complete balance with bridges, unless you want to pay 2/3 of the price of a new movement! I did have issues in past with cheap generic ones.
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Hi Guys,
I find the etachron balance to be a great design (with great accuracy) if factory set!! Having a rotatable block allowing regulator pins to move in unison definitely beats the bending of regulator pins of other systems, especially for isochronism !
Pity that genuine balance wheels do not come out already complete with bridge bing already factory adjusted, so I picked up a ew balance to replace in my bridge which went well snapping in stud into stud holder etc! etc! Hairspring was a breeze and intact! Followed all the protocols of opening regulator block with pins at their widest opening with micro adjuster in centre! Well in beat wit( beat error of 0.4ms!
I thought - Great all is smooth!
Wrong! Timing is +6 secs/day dial up, +8 secs/day with bottom lugs down, which is close BUT
+20 secs/day crown up and -8 secs/day crown down which is way off to me! I recall this as “out of positional rate”. I am thinking that these things are not as easy to adjust even though all the hardware replacement went well. I am wondering if anyone who has ever replaced a balance with hairspring has ever had this issue? I am concerned that I may fix timing in these positions and screw up the other positions ending up with same problem in opposite directions!
thanks for any suggestions and comments!
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In my horological experiences I have never had the need to remove a balance assembly on full power, but noticed a discussion that some do remove it on a powered watch. I understand that there are times the balance needs to be removed on a fully running watch! What is your preferred method?
Franken genuine omega or maybe just mix and matching.?
in General Discussion
Posted
I have a near mint condition vintage omega seamaster case reference 166.008 which Is the typical 1960’s 35mm case that came with the caliber 562 and with the quickset 565
Last week by pure chance someone in the next town had offered to sell me a movement with dial but it it that came from a Seamaster 166.002 (which also came with same caliber) fora fair price!
I was about to pull the trigger and go for it, but then I thought if the dial would cause any issues coming from a different model even though it is the same 166.xxx series!? I have noticed that some 562 dials are domed and others are flat causing problems for stem alignment and case closings!
I know very little about omega technicality so if anyone has ever experimented changing the internals omega to fit into a different model omega of same series ,I would appreciate your input? The seller said that he would hold it for me for a week as he will be on holidays for the next few days Thanks! 🙏