Comparing the VIP ETA mariner and the noob mariner

[P4GTR]

I started off intending to answer a question about a vip mariner on RWI and ended up with this long post. Anyone thats interested in trying to take the best of the ETA/VIP/Perfect sub and the noob sub and combine them, or simply pull those ETA movements out of their older subs and put them in their noobmariners, this might be of some interest to you, so I wanted to document it here.

Swapping ETA sub guts from the VIP into the noob cases seemed to be the best way to "upgrade" the movement quality of noobmariners. I can only tell you what my experience was along the way having tried this past week.

It is possible. With the better guts from the VIP in the better case set, a WM pearl and bezel sanding, this would be the best sub for the money imo, especially for those that have one or both lying around already. Unfortunately its far from a direct swap.

If you pulled the ETA movement, dial, hands and all, from a VIPmariner and dropped it into a noob case you would run into a few problems.

The crown and tubes are different sizes. Swap the stems from one crown to the other to fix that.

The movement holders would stay with the case they were originally intended for.

The first real roadblock is the date position, or shall I say the date mag, which is further to the right on the VIP. When you drop the ETA guts from the VIP into the noobcase, the date mag isn't going to line up. At all. This is pretty much the part where I ran out of talent/ambition. I could probably get the date mags off, but putting them back on? Thats a lesson i've yet to learn.

Items of note:

The noob dial is considered to be more accurate, so you could swap the dials out, but I couldn't tell you what this would do with the date position issue. It wouldn't rectify it, and theoretically you'd have to swap date wheels now too. Anyone that can do this could probably figure out how to service a movement and hell, you're well on your way to becoming a watch smith. Before you found these forums you just wanted a good fake Rolex for under $800. Ha! Now look at you.

I've noticed on a recent noobmariner I received that the end links and inside thighs of the case lugs aren't as good a fit and finish as once touted. Oh there's gap alright. More than on my VIP, which is admittedly good (for a VIP, you can be the judge. further down theres pics.)

Noob cases without the rehaut engraving are still around, but drying out as apparently they aren't being manufactured.

The noob is great, but something no one seems to mention is the non-beveled edge running up the case lugs is an instant giveaway. That and the fact that the very heart of the watch itself (movement) is such a problem, means this no longer the A-list Sub it once was. At least to me.

You can ID the VIP as the infamous "perfect" subs that came on the scene two plus years ago. The crown guards are uneven if you look down the lugs at them. The worst part of the case is the conical "wokky" rehaut. Josh's "classic ETA" sub is the VIP/perfect/wok mariner. The case does have beveled edges running up the lugs, whereas the noob cases are flat ground from the polished sides to the top brushed finish. Bezel teeth are also crisper than the noob, but the teeth themselves aren't of consistant size. The bezel insert print on the VIP is better than the noob.

It's really such a give and take. The gen has a slight slight conical look to it, even head on (granted no where near the likes of the VIPmariner), you can see that here, and also see the beveled edge I am talking about that runs up the edge of the case.

Gen:

Basically if you handed either watch to me I'd be able to ID it as a fake within one second, as would any of you now, if you made it through reading this post.

WM9 is the creme of the crop sub. I've yet to handle one to tell you what the instant giveaway is on that. The price is about 7 payments away from a gen. Thats a problem. I'm so quick to admit "its fake" to anyone and everyone that shows any interest in my sub that its just not worth a heavy investment. I'd feel like a douchebag because at that point who am I trying to fool? Beveled edges? Conical rehaut? How scrupulous are we going to get before the only satisfactory resolution is to buy the gen?

Both the noob and VIP have their positives and negatives. Both are capable of being water tight. That, and the reliability of the movement has made my first rep, the vipmariner, a rep I still enjoy keeping in rotation. Unless you're on one of these forums you probably won't know any better looking at my watch, but have only to ask me.

Like Fakey said, people are going to assume its fake before they assume its real, if they even care at all.. They certainly aren't going to ask. If they do, the cats out of the bag and I'd rather the answer to the second question they ask be "$2-300" rather than $600+

My VIP-

[Jkay]

Holy Cow you read my mind .. I asked a collector to briefly state the difference between a Noob and a VIP sub and was promptly ignored.

thanks!

[alligoat]

Interesting and informative write-up. Although I own a number of reps w/ asian 21j movements, I always consider them somewhat of a gamble- how long will they continue to function?

I still consider the noob as a better entry level sub than the VIPmariner. This one from Paul w/ the asian 2836-2 would be another possibility:

http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?products_id=1165&osCsid=22b19b413f6c19613c01fac59f526fea

This watch has the updated crown and tube, the new rehaut engraving and maybe a better pearl. CG's look decent and a WM pearl for $10 is an easy swap. The asian 2836-2 is still a gamble, but if worse came to worse, maybe you could find a true Swiss eta and swap it in there- the only tricky part might be moving the datewheel overlay over to the swiss movt.

I guess with any Rolex sub rep, you'll always know it's a fake, but sometimes it's better to beat up a fake than to tear up a gen. I always try to avoid wearing a gen when the work gets ugly! That's when I enjoy my reps most- when the going gets tough!