jmb Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 While I was trying to breath life back into my Noobmariner, which only ran for one day, I went on a quest for the cheap high-beat holy grail. After spending as much on DG4813 movements from cousins and ofrei as I did on the original purchase price of the watch I gave up and put in a DG2813 movement - works great! Hopefully the word is out that if you get a DG4813 from anybody other than Eurotimez it will be a short canon movement and it ain't gonna work in anything that you need to glue a date wheel overlay to. Well, all this said and done I wound up with a few movements I figured were pretty much worthless in my world... Enter the no-date Submariner - after drilling lug holes and putting in a tad thicker crystal I sort of got attached to it and wore it daily ( I may be able to clean out the watch drawer sooner than I had thought ) which made me start thinking about maybe putting one of these "worthless" 4813s to good use. The a21j low-beat that was in the watch had a surprisingly smooth sweep, and I had no problem with it, but I just wanted that 28,800 beat that everybody seems to be so fond of so I decided this mad thought was a go. I decided to completely remove all date related junk from the movement - a few gears, date wheel, some springs, etc. I figured if it was date related I saw no reason for it t be bogging down the works. WHen this surgery was completed the dial sat right down on the movement and there was plenty of canon sticking up to press the hands onto. I was starting to get happy! But, if I have learned one thing in the short time I have been messing with watches it's that once you solve one problem you have probably created another. Sure snough, with everything reassembled the movement sat "slanted" in the case due to the assembly's reduced thickness. The l/h side of the dial rested against the rehaut while the r/h side was propped up about .020" but the stem! I was pi$$ed so I tossed it in a drawer for a while. Today I decided to turn a little spacer ring to "shim" back the assembly so things would line up and be level. I made this one ( a quick and dirty proof of concept type piece) out of 6061 aluminum because it machines so easy and I don't have a carbide cutoff tool for my lathe. While on the wrist the spacer is barely noticeable even though I know it's there and I doubt anybody else would notice it under normal circumstances. I may make one out of stainless steel someday if I ever get a carbide insert cutoff tool. Now that I have done all of this was it worth it? In my case, I don't think so. The ofrei DG4813, in my opinion, does not beat at 28,800 and if I look at it I swear I can easily count only 5 ticks per second and a 2813 looks smoother! This might be an ideal movement for a no-date Milsub, or other vintage project that had the real low-beat movement and I may put the cheaper a21j back in here since I had it regulated to 2-3 sec/day! I seem to remember some discussion where others swore they got DG4813 movements that also did not run at 28,800. I have one of my Eurotimez 4813s dialed up and ready to put in another project as soon as I get some gold hands for a21j - my source sent me hands for (I think) a 2836 as the holes in them are too small. Well, here's a couple of pics of the surgery for your viewing pleasure... This shot is pretty blurry but I think you should be able to see how the movement/dial assembly "tilts" to the right: Here's the ring I machined, it's .025" thick: Here is the spacer installed into the case: You should now be able to see that the assembly sits level and the stem slid right in where before it was in quite a bind: As I mentioned while on the wrist the spacer is rather hard to see but you can see it in these close-ups: People also said it sorely needed a new insert and pearl so I insalled a J and K Watches insert that came with a "zit" pearl very similar to that on the old Nobmariners. I gave the pearl the "epoxy treatment" and stuck it on. I think I got about the right "convexity", maybe a tad too much: I have some more bands coming to evaluate from a new "source" I'm cultivating so when I get them I will address my sloppy SEL grinding job by installing a non-SEL band after which I think I will be done with this one and I will likely try to find this one a good home and do another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonymacmadcap Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 *** WAVING HAND*** Good home here....Good home here.....WAVING HAND**** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 hey, jmb, was wondering how much youd charge to drill some lug holes on a sub case and provide a no date dial. That is, if you offer your talented services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Interesting foray into DG swapping. I know exactly how you feel. swap one thing to make it fit, another thing doesnt fit anymore. Very aggrivating. Eurotimez mvmts are direct swaps that beat @ 28,800, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 P4, they are supposed to be. I have two of them and will be assembling a fantasy watch with one as soon as I find some freakin' hands that fit! All I have are hands that will fit ETA movements, I think... Highoey, does it already have the existing "wimpy" holes? I think I have a couple no-date dials left... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 virgin case, NO pilot holes or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 I'll PM ya and we can discuss this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Fantastic work, and an awesome solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Thanks, T, but the more I stare at this thing's sweep the more I think I went through all of this for a mis-packaged 2813! So, does this mean there are short canon DG2813 movements out in the wild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 I remember reading some time back about fixing the 4813s jerky sweep as some movements have problems and one part needed tightening. If I remember correctly I believe it was Gioarmani that addressed this issue. But it also could of been Ajoesmith. I know my movement is accurate until the date starts to change at midnight and some how it slows down my minute hand. Since im keen on this 14060 project I might remove the date wheel altogether, and perhaps *try* and remove that component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Thanks, T, but the more I stare at this thing's sweep the more I think I went through all of this for a mis-packaged 2813! So, does this mean there are short canon DG2813 movements out in the wild? I wouldn't like to say for sure, I suspect that the no-date Subs available are mostly using movements with the date wheel, and simply using the no-date dial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 T, you are correct. The a21j I took out of this had a date wheel underneath so I "nicked" the overlay to use on something else... I'm going to order a few more no-date dials and convert a couple of the $50 Subs I have laying around into no-date versions. I know, incorrect but they still have the nice clean simple uncluttered look even if the case and bezel isn't 100% correct... S, it's not so much jerky but I can see it "ticking" at about the same rate as the DG2813 which is making me think more and more that this was a mislabeled DG2813... The date related stuff is pretty easy to yank out and what to remove is pretty self-explanatory once you get the little plate off. Maybe next time I do this I'll take a pic of what to remove. One other nice thing about pulling out all the date related junk is if somebody was really anal it would be easy (I think) to remove the "notch" for the date set position so you only had wind and time set positions. Seems I remember reading about this mod being performed by some because vintage no-dates had only the two positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itreeman Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Very good idea...nice little project. I have a bunch of noob subs from over the years and have always wanted to do something like this. Don't the gen no date subs have slightly less deep rehaut more like the noob case...if so this would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Nice solution to the stem alignment problem, jmb! Nice to have a lathe to tackle these kinds of problems BTW, were you ever able to get that Tudor chronograph together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ubi, I have all of the components except dial. I'm going to "overhaul" the case (new pusher O-rings and the circlips on the pushers) - just got the O-rings from watchbitz and circlips from cousins. I have bought a "generic" dial off e-Bay for the purpose of "mocking it up" to make sure everything fits (hands, etc.). I'm looking forward to it as soon as it's all together. I've never assembled one like this from scratch so I don't know yet whether any kind of movement adapter is going to be needed but I'll cross/build that bridge when I get there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I figured I better "overhaul" it as I found a couple little rubber bits floating around in the case! Dang, them O-rings and clips sure are itty-bitty suckers! Glad I have a stereo microscope or this hobby would be a "no-go" for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I forget- Did I send the case to you broken down into individual parts? Or did I send it assembled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted January 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It was assembled and when I took off the back I noticed what looked like bits of a tiny O-ring inside so I figured it'd be better safe than sorry. Also, the circlips that prevent the pushers from being able to be pulled out were not installed. Again, this was probably not a big deal as most folks not grab them and start pulling but I figured I'd feel better with clips! Cousins had a nice assortment of these tiny circlips for just a few bucks so I'm all set! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itreeman Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 jmb, you mention that you installed a thicker crystal...where did you source that? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted January 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 I got it from ofrei.com... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itreeman Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 jmb, was it a direct fit...you wouldn't happen to have the part number from ofrei? Thanks!!! I got it from ofrei.com... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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