Gold Plating

[mastrmindalliance]

Hi, I'm shopping around for something a bit different, and have read good reviews of the Franck Muller King Cortez. Its so far removed from my usual taste I'm thinking about taking it one step further and buying gold and (I usually wear silver).

I'm chasing your experience and opinions on the longevity of the "Thick 18K Gold Plating ... 5 mils". I've read some reports that it comes off on the bracelet easily, but not the watch head itself. Is there any truth to that?

Does it last at all? Will it take a knock? Will living in a sub tropical climate (hot and humid = sweaty) affect its lifespan.

Thanks for any input!

[fakemaster]

No reps have 5 mil plating. Not even close. It will scratch and fade. Mainly at the wear points. There is no finite answer to the amount of time this takes because it is based on several factors.

Humidity where you live.

Skin acidity.

How often you wear it.

How you care for it

How you wear it.

It can last for a month or look brand new after several years like my Daytona.

[mastrmindalliance]

Hmm, yeah, we're at about 35 degrees (95f) and 85% humidity today, and getting warmer and wetter... Might not be such a smart buy.

I realise, like all reps, there will be a variance. Just trying to get some general anecdotal experience.

Thanks for yours!

[kronos twin]

I don't have anecdotal experience, since I don't own a RG plated or gold plated watch, but the new watches, like the RG Montoya Royal Oak Offshore claim that they are plated using a process similar to DLC Coating. I know nothing about this process, but I'd like to hear from others if there's merit to the idea that these new plated watches will last longer.

[lanikai]

Gold "wrap" is the way to go .. it is more akin to gold leaf..

Plating will wear down .. everyone's acidity level differs and during summer months the sweat will erode the plating as will just handling the crown

but in question to "plating" here are some facts as it relates to plating and some misconceptions.

As a starting point it will be necessary to define the "unit of measurement" that describe electroplated layer thicknesses. The most common unit of measurement in the U.S. is the "microinch". In layman's terms, a microinch is actually the same as one millionth of an inch ***100 microinches is equivalent to 2.5 microns

Its not enough to have a thick gold plated layer if it is easily rubbed off from casual contact with clothing, skin and other surfaces. Hardness of the gold plated layer is an extremely important consideration when durability is the prime concern.

Newer electroplated gold formulas are becoming available that produce finishes that are extremely hard and scratch resistant. Electroplating formulas, which include trace amounts of exotic metal alloys, have reduced the need for gold plated finishes over 5 microns in thickness. While this may still seem very thin, the thickness is more than adequate for long term durability and luster for most high wear objects.

Luxury quality watch cases from some manufacturers have been plated in gold (18 kt color) up to 20 microns (1/50 of a millimeter) in thickness. This by far exceeds the 2.5 microns required for "heavy gold plate" under F.T.C. rules.

As thin as 20 microns may seem (1/5th of a human hair), the expected durability of this type of plated gold finish, with reasonable care, could nearly exceed the functional lifetime of the watch itself!

by US federal standards 2.5 microns is considered "heavy gold plating"

without endorsing the reps and it's plating.. I have watches that are 2 to 3 years old in which the gold plating is not worn down .. both the rose gold plating and the 18k "looking" plating.. "BUT".. I do not wear these watches everyday, nor do I wear them in extremely humid and hot weather.. ergo it depends on the persons chemistry and wear and tear of the watch

I do have a WM9 TT being made that exceeds the Micron level of "Heavy plating" (2.5) microns.. and is supposed to exceed the 5 micron level.. it will be close to the luxury brand plating of 20 microns.. it will be 15microns I believe..if so .. I will not have to be concerned about it ever wearing down..

There are a lot of members that wear their HBB's on a regular basis without issue.. and others who have the lesser quality plating of a few years ago in which the plating wore down.. then again you need to remember the individuals acidity level and chemistry.. a lot has to do with diet geography.. etc.

hope that helps to understand "plating"

AC/lani

[lanikai]

I don't have anecdotal experience, since I don't own a RG plated or gold plated watch, but the new watches, like the RG Montoya Royal Oak Offshore claim that they are plated using a process similar to DLC Coating. I know nothing about this process, but I'd like to hear from others if there's merit to the idea that these new plated watches will last longer.

I have read in science journals.. (that you can Google) that it is not only the wrap in the process, but also the newer addition of alloy's that strengthen the gold wrap from scratching and wear and tear..and most importantly .. "oxidation" is curtailed with the newer alloys and "wrapping"

My rose gold UN is still going strong..

[mbjoer]

I have not had the requirement yet as I am very careful about using my gold plated watches.

But it should be possible to re-plate a watch. Any experiences??

[freddy333]

Generally, you are lucky if gold plating/wrapping/capping (whatever you want to call the thin layer of 'gold' applied on top of a base metal) on a rep lasts more than a couple of years. But every once in awhile, you get lucky. This watch, purchased in 1987 & worn daily for several years, retains much of its original gold plating on the bezel & bracelet mid-links (note that the end links are gens)

[lanikai]

I have not had the requirement yet as I am very careful about using my gold plated watches.

But it should be possible to re-plate a watch. Any experiences??

most jewelers with have plating equipment in their shops.. if they are making jewelry .. it should not be too hard to find one.

[freddy333]

Although I have never gotten great results, you can try plating the parts yourself.

[lanikai]

The only problem with plating kits is that it's difficult to get an even colour and "flow" it you are using a cheapo kit and the good ones are pricey.. the liquid gold is usually 14k and not cheap.

I used to gold plate car emblems and the portable plater with anodes and chemicals cost me north of 3k, then the liquid gold cost 600 usd. for a tiny bottle.. but this was a high end quality machine.. and if you have a "bals spot on the area to be plated, it usually looks like a "patch" of gold after you re-plate it.... and unless you have the right chemicals to use to "bond" the gold it's a very unforgiving outcome..

just an fyi for those looking for plating machines on the net..

[mbjoer]

The only problem with plating kits is that it's difficult to get an even colour and "flow" it you are using a cheapo kit and the good ones are pricey.. the liquid gold is usually 14k and not cheap.

I used to gold plate car emblems and the portable plater with anodes and chemicals cost me north of 3k, then the liquid gold cost 600 usd. for a tiny bottle.. but this was a high end quality machine.. and if you have a "bals spot on the area to be plated, it usually looks like a "patch" of gold after you re-plate it.... and unless you have the right chemicals to use to "bond" the gold it's a very unforgiving outcome..

just an fyi for those looking for plating machines on the net..

I would not have the nerve to attempt myself.

But other than the risk of patchyness, what about the engravings/etchings? Do they survive another plating?

[AlexLeGrande]

I own the PAM 231, which is red gold. I have worn it a bunch, and took care to wipe it off after each wearing. Then I noticed that the sharp edges of the crown looked silver, and over time, the plating on the sharp edge of the crown is gone. It's a disappointment. I like the watch very much. The plating on the rest of the piece still looks good and I wear it weekly. I vow to wind this watch while wearing a cotton glove when I finally get the crown re-plated.

As an aside, I have a B&R PVD from Josh, and the edge wear spots are loosing color and show the base silver colored material underneath the PVD coating. I also have Josh's Breitling Navitimer for three years and it is still running spot-on.

[RickHiC]

My 2c. I have two gold watches:

B&R 02 with pvd case and gold bezel. I don't wear this a lot, but I can't find any silvering or blemishes anywhere.

HBB rose gold: This I wear a fair amount and have banged it on things a few times. I can see micro-dents in the bezel and case, and they still retain the rose gold color. No silvering anywhere, even on the scratches and dents. I don't know if that factory uses a different material or what, or maybe I've just been lucky.

caveat: I've only owned & worn these watches ~1 year.

[lanikai]

I would not have the nerve to attempt myself.

But other than the risk of patchyness, what about the engravings/etchings? Do they survive another plating?

the engravings and etchings wont "fill up" if that is the concern.. it takes 1000 microns to make up a Millimeter .. and 5 microns is doable with the reps.. that is not as thick as the 15 microns from BK.. but it is substantial, the parts that will wear first are the parts with sharp edges.. ie. crown .. realistically the crown should be thicker plated as the edges will not take as much plating at one time as the flatter surfaces do, hence it wears down much faster in proportion to the case and with the handling of the edges more so..but I have not had a problem with the high end plated reps.

the plating machines depends on anodes and ion charged chemicals to "rub" on the metal the base metal should be nickel plated first, SS will take gold plating but wagin you would need the proper prepping chemicals for the gold to bond with it.. otherwise it will not adhere to the metal.

So a "positive" charge is run thru the anodes and some use medical cotton, wrapped around the anode and then dipped in the liquid chemical that contains the gold in a liquid form.

There is a way to get the 14k plating to have the appearance of 18k.. that is done by using a higher voltage charge and "burning" the plating a little so it darkens.. it looks much better with the 18k darkness than the lighter 14k.

When you take it into a jeweler, they have what looks like an ultra sonic cleaner, a thin gold leaf is hooked on a electrically charged wire (positive charge) and put into a chemical solution, the pieces that are to be plated are put in a little metal basket or hung by wire hook in the solution, the little machine is then turned on and a positive charged Current is run through the solution.. the pieces that are plating attracts the positive ion particles to bond.. a lot of jewelers will "treat" their 14 jewelry with 18k gold for a darker "look" since some 14k gold chains are very light in colour, like the Italian gold chains, since the alloys they use causes a more brilliant sheen but lightens the gold.. this is legal and nothing bordering on not enough gold in the material.

You find more pure gold in Asian countries .. truly pure gold and not the nuggets taken from streams..has the appearance of more a copper tone... and is very, very soft.. Vietnam has very dark coloured gold.. the jewelry holds less alloys and more pure gold.

SSurfer had his Pam Wempe re-plated with "Rose gold", it looks outstanding.. and will no doubt outlive the servicing of the movement a few times over.

[offshore]

Another prob with plating kits, is that you must prep well first. to do that you must know exactly what metal you are plating. And that in itself is problematic. Get it somewhat wrong, you get zero result...partly right , will give a patchy result....what I am saying is you must get everything right to get anything like an acceptable result.

I have a Caswell kit, and only ever use it for "touch up" plating. (with varying results)

You will spend a couple of hundred getting the kit and solutions, and you can get 2 or 3 watches professionally plated for that amount. I send most of my jobs out!

O/S

[mbjoer]

Thanks, Lani for this info. Very interesting. I always assumed that gold was light in the colour and that the darkness was due to an alloy.

I would be tempted to pick you brain about white gold, steel and rhodium.

I have mostly found the difference between white gold and steel marginal, but do like a whiter look than the normal steel. So I thought it might make sense to plate steel with rhodium as I understand that white gold frequently gets that treatment. - But I have never come across rhodium on steel.

Why not?

[Guest avitt]

The best solution seems to be a TiN PVD layer, covered by a thin layer of gold...You get the look, and the durability! Here's a technical document from Longines, which describes their process: http://www.longines.com/documents/technical-information/pvd-coating-en.pdf

[lanikai]

Another prob with plating kits, is that you must prep well first. to do that you must know exactly what metal you are plating. And that in itself is problematic. Get it somewhat wrong, you get zero result...partly right , will give a patchy result....what I am saying is you must get everything right to get anything like an acceptable result.

I have a Caswell kit, and only ever use it for "touch up" plating. (with varying results)

You will spend a couple of hundred getting the kit and solutions, and you can get 2 or 3 watches professionally plated for that amount. I send most of my jobs out!

O/S

exactly OS.. without the proper chemicals to prep the metal, and nickel needs to be the coating of choice for the gold to come out nicely.... unless it is a side biz its simply not worth it..

[crystalcranium]

I didnt know PVD Titanium nitride could be gold plated. This would seem to be a wonderful alterntive to gold fill which is 10k wrap with an overplating. TiN is VERY hard and durable, uese to coat drill bits and router bits and is very similar to gold in appearance. Wear of the actual gold plate would by much less noticble than it wearing off of a brass substrate. Stay away from home plating kits.

I have had gold plated reps tarnish sitting in the box unworn!!! I have one plated watch, an F A Jones but little of the gold finish contacts skin as it has a clear caseback and a leather strap. It looks great.

[Watchmeister]

The best solution seems to be a TiN PVD layer, covered by a thin layer of gold...You get the look, and the durability! Here's a technical document from Longines, which describes their process: http://www.longines.com/documents/technical-information/pvd-coating-en.pdf

Avitt has it right. The most durable coating is gold layered on PVD/DLC. It is much less likely to wear away. Your only concern is if you actually get a deep scratch. As I understand it if you do there is no choice other than to strip the entire case completely and then either plate or use the PVD/Gold process. Interestingly, many fine watch companies actually use gold plated crowns rather than solid gold.

[firnatine]

Hi Lanikai,i have searched all sites for an Admiral's Cup 44 in gold case and bracelett (5 Micron stuff )...any help?

I have read in science journals.. (that you can Google) that it is not only the wrap in the process, but also the newer addition of alloy's that strengthen the gold wrap from scratching and wear and tear..and most importantly .. "oxidation" is curtailed with the newer alloys and "wrapping"

My rose gold UN is still going strong..

[paneristi_man]

From my experience I have a full gold DJ and have not observed any issues. i have it for 2 years but do not wear it very often though.i had to clean it once in a while and it's still shiny.i keep my gold dj for dressy occasions and only when i'm going to somewhere with air conditioning.

[Guest avitt]

...Your only concern is if you actually get a deep scratch. As I understand it if you do there is no choice other than to strip the entire case completely and then either plate or use the PVD/Gold process...

I think that a scratch could be handled by simply reapplying the gold plating over the PVD. You would loose the protective "under layer" in the area of the scratch, but that would only come into play if you scratched is again in exactly the same spot.