Forum dishonesty

[Admin]

As most of you know, we passed 25.000 members this week. Quite an accomplishment and I have to admit that after running forums like this for almost 10 years, I felt proud of what we have accomplished. I was actually going to make a big fuzz about how we are the biggest and best forum around. Now before I was gonna do that, I figured it was a good idea to check the numbers on the other forums. I rarely visit any other forums as I usually have my hands full and the little time I have left I spend here. To my surprise I discovered that Repgeek claims to have 27.000 members. That's 2000 more members than we have. I remember visiting Repgeek a while back and they were nowhere near our numbers, so I was really surprised about this. I mean; kudos to them for managing to get tons of new members, right? Unfortunately, it seems that Repgeek is intentionally misleading all their members and visitors with their numbers. I'll give you the facts here and you can decide for yourselves. Let me just say this; Honesty and integrity are 2 things that I value higher than anything and I take pride in saying that we have a team here where all team members care about these 2 values. I always thought the forums where here to talk about watches, first and foremost, but also to reveal the scams and dishonesty out there. To see another forum being dishonest in this way is a big disappointment.

Here is the short version;

Vbulletin has a modification that you can download and install that is called "Fake Community Stats": http://www.vbulletin...ad.php?t=117933 and Repgeek is using this.

So what does it do? Well, here is an excerpt from the description;

What does this do?

After importing this product you will have additional options in the Administrator Control Panel below the 'Fake Community Statistics Options' section. This plugin gives you the ability to cheat the stats on forumhome (and a few other locations) by increasing the real value with a false value. The goal of this plugin is to helps new communities boost their activity by pretending they are bigger and more active; provoking visitors to register and participate to generate real activity (after which the admin can stop using this plugin)

Basically it gives the admin of a vBulletin forum (That's the forum software Repgeek is using) the ability to cheat every imaginable value of the forum; members, active members, posts, etc.

Long version

OK, how do we know that Repgeek is doing this? First, let me give you the technical side of this and how you can prove this yourselves;

Basically all the forums you visit today rely on some sort of database. Whenever a member registers for the forum, they are given an ID in the database that refers to their member/user ID. Since I was the first one that registered, my ID is 1. The forum then uses a value in the database called "auto_increment" that will add 1 to the ID of every new member that registers, so that the second member that register will get ID 2, third, will get ID 3, etc. You get the picture. Since we are using Invisionboard, this value is referred to in the database as member_id;

As you can see, the "auto_increment" setting is specified under the extra-settings. This setting is also the reason why we currently have "only" 25.000+ members, but our ID's are all the way up to 28.000+. Over the years we have deleted inactive members, duplicate members, etc. so even though we have 25.000 members, the ID-system will show a higher number due to the deleted members

vBulletin uses the exact same setting, but in their database, they have a userid-field, not member ID, like we have;

Why are thes ID's important? Well, they are basically used all over the place as references to your user. Let me show you what I mean:

As I already said, my user ID is 1, so the link to my profile is www.rwgforum.com/user/1-admin/. As you can see, the ID is used to get to my profile. Another example would be our latest member who have registered, bucko911: As you can see, he been assigned user ID 28518 in our database.

(For reference, you can also use a "non SEO" link to view a profile; http://www.rwgforum.....php?showuser=1 Just change the number at the end with the user profile you want to view)

Well, now that we have the technical details sorted out, lets have a closer look at RepGeeks numbers:

The first thing that I find strange is that when I click on their lates members, this is the link I get;

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=21643

Well, there is your first proof: Repgeek currently has 21.643 members. How do we know it's not more? Because it is clearly stated on their members page "6000 members have choosen not to be listed", so how do we know it is not more?

Well, let me show you something strange then. This is a screenshot taken from the page I mentioned above. The Fake Community stats (Address is highlighted for verification purposes, Feel free to log in with your valid vbulletin-license to verify the screenshot)

Notice any similarities?

This is a quote taken directly from the information about this tool;

Does this come with templates or require me to modify my templates?

No, no new templates are required. Original values are overwritten.

Yes, two template modifications are required if you wish to show 'x members chosen not to be displayed' on memberlist.php and add fake online users to the online users list. (see install instructions below)

Screenshot

Also, feel free to log into your Repgeek profile and see if you can find a setting anywhere that let's you hide your profile? Can't find anything?

Let's do an experiment: If you want to view a profile at Repgeek, this is the link you need; http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=

Since they have 27.000 members, let find their 25.000 member; http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=25000

Hmm...that's strange (Well, not really!) - Invalid User specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator!

Oh, well, lets try a couple more;

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=25859

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=23256

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=24831

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=22571

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=24194

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=26891

http://repgeek.com/member.php?u=27000

Same result for all! In fact, you can try any number above 22.000 and you will find a members profile.

Now keep in mind that I have only shown you what is wrong with their member numbers here. This module can also add posts, add active users, etc:

Repgeek can of course do as they want, but if you ask me this is both dishonest and deceiving, both to new and existing members and this is the reason why I am posting about it. My request to the RG team would of course be to remove this and come play on the same playing field as the other forums do, with real statistics and real numbers. No matter what they decide to do, the facts are here and you can decide for yourself what you think about this practice. One thing is for sure; You wil never see RWG do something like this!

[Member X]

Hmm...

Why bother doing that? It's not like 22k members (or whatever) is small, so why both with the extra numbers?

Forum willy waving about "we've got the biggest, ner ner!" just looks childish and, tbh, is the least of a new member's worries. (IMO)

Will be interesting to see what RG respond with...

[gran]

One thing is for sure; You wil never see RWG do something like this!

That sounds goooooooooooooooood. The RWGs the best

God Helg!

Gunnar

[redwatch]

I agree with member x. 22k members is nothing to be ashamed of. Why try and boost the numbers, if not for some dishonest reason.

Very amazing sleuthing Admin!!! Well done!

[Ztech]

Never knew that anyone, or forum, would do such a thing, but if you consider that boasting a larger community could lead to larger ad dollars I guess it isn't too hard to imagine. This is why I make RWG my home.

[deniz21]

i guess its because of that.... mine i bigger then yours

ist always the same.. everywhere

good to see that our forum dont need this

thank you admin, for clearing this out

deniz

[lanikai]

Having communicated with Our Admin .. T. In the past... I can say beyond a doubt that his values and ethics are above RWG ever falsifying ANYTHING.. be it member count.. raffle contests.. donation use.. and anything that would compromise the integrity of the Community !!

As much as I too don't frequent other fora's I could see where the tactic of 'Claiming' to be the largest forum with the most members would boost interest in membership criteria..

As RWG has always stood for honesty and withstood many attempts to discredit our Community .. I can see this tactic as being very "dis-honest" and flagrant ... in it's attempt to draw membership..

So the question I ask "myself" is; what is it I'm looking for in a Rep forum?.. because the argument has been made that we are dealing in replica watches, so what is the point of honesty?.. kinda talking through ones arse isn't it ?.. but the fact remains that RWG is, and will continue to be the leader in Honest and reliable tech info .. the membership speaks volumes.. from #1 to the newest member.. we are here to support one another in the hobby of replicated watches.. Bigger does not mean better.. although some would like to think so..so as we grew .. other fora's target the "we are bigger" mantra..

Hard work from day 1, when Admin rescued a drowning membership and has work tirelessly to improve the board for all that wish to enjoy not getting scammed and can feel safe spending their money .. and has built a forum with the most "registered" members.. I can understand totally the "feelings" when another forum "claims" to be bigger in the number of members..

So Honesty and ethics does in fact start at the very Top of the food chain for RWG..

Admin always is there for us.. and trusts that the raffles are held to the highest of integrity.. as are the donations for upgrading membership...

There have been claims of members not getting their upgrades.. when we have no records of them upgrading.. these members are obviously from other forums and are again trying to discredit the community..

I try and not take it personally.. but then again.. this is my internet home.. and when someone attacks the integrity of our home.. I cannot help but look at it as an attack on everything that is held dear to our Admin Team..

We are not about personal profit.. never have been.. never will be.. we are about Support through honest info..

So all the Prop's to T !!!! for his time and before we became self supporting.. "his" monies to get "THE RWG" to the top of the Rep world. !!!!!

AC/Lani

[bwhitesox]

I'm a supporting member of Repgeek but with all of the recent bans and especially the deleted and edited posts over there I won't be for much longer.

This forum is my home and has always been my main watch forum and the place I respect the most.

Thanks again T for another informative and eye opening post.

[panerai153]

Unfortunately, if they will lie about numbers, which in my opinion is totally inconsequential, they will lie about other things as well. I don't see what this accomplishes, except as someone stated above it's a "mine is bigger than yours" attitude, which is pretty sophomoric, to say the least.

To me, it's all about the community, how it works together, and the quality of the content posted. this forum amazes me every day with new and interesting posts by members here. that's why I stay here and don't jump from forum to forum. I don't see the need.

I commend our esteemed admin. for bringing this little tidbit of information to our attention. thanks from one of the hive members.

[Ronin]

I never understood the BSP (Blatent Self Promotion) of stats like this. Member Counts. Here, there, or anywhere...

Personally, give be quality over quantity. And in the case of "Rep" forums where the content is borderline , I prefer low-profile...

I have accounts at all the usual suspects, but RWG is my homebase. In all honesty because it seems to have the lowest "Noise Level" (least amount of BSP, good level of constructive comments, easy to sweep in and Read New Messages in a reasonable amount of time.) Also, the forum software here rocks.

I will sale the For Sale section at RG does seem to have a bit more activity, so if buying and selling is your primary goal its a good place to go.

RG is more like Vegas

RWG is more like Monaco

Keep up the good work Admin,

[OmegaPOFL]

damn Admin... i did not know this!!

thanks for bringing this out.

i'm just disappointed now..

[SilverG]

Wow. Great write-up. Something REALLY suspicious has been going on at Repgeek in the last couple of months. All this negative publicity. I hope they get their act together because I enjoy visiting that forum...

[maxman]

RWG Is the only watch forum I have been a active member In. I visit a few gen forums but It's basically to see a certain watch or maybe read a review. When RWG was going through that big hardware upgrade several months ago I tried to become a member at RG. I was going to hang out there until things got back on line here. I filled out the Info and waited for them to confirm by sending me a Email. I never got that Email and I never gave RG another thought. I waited a few weeks and I was back here doing what I love to do Thanks for keeping the record straight. Mike

[plaifender]

This really makes me feel an even stronger sense of community here in RWG. If the claims are in fact true,

I truly can't understand why deception and falsification is the means of attracting more "users". RWG

truly is the ultimate watch forum period. The environment and dialogue here is so open and non-biased

that you'd be hard pressed to find any place more equal and just. That says alot about the admin(s), and

it mighteven say more about the members here. Of course, we get the ocassional rant from a member that

thinks another member should be banned for "thread crapping" or speaking his mind, but the fact that our

forum takes a 95% neutral approach to conflict resolution and bannings really does make a difference in

the overall feel of the community. If democracy were a forum, then it would be this place. Transparency,

ethics, and free speech are something we all think of as fundamentals of a government, why should we

expect less from our online community. This place rocks, it's my home and will always be. Keep it up

RWG... we are a model community to which most forums should look up. I love this place

[repfreak]

Its kind of like debating who got the biggest d!ck here. Do you really want to compare side by side whose is bigger? We all know we love our own d!ck.. Unless you love someone else's d!ck...

Everyone lies about his d!ck size anyway, but I have to agree recently RG seems to be very "cloudy", that's why I'm hanging around in RWG more frequently these days...

[bwhitesox]

LOL nice one repfreak

[Jkay]

Dunno. As someone who's been around a longass time, hosted message boards, BBSs, irc networks and channels .. it's all about envy and doubt. It's all inside that Admin's head over at RG.

A personal failing.

not too hard to understand.

[castlemountain]

Thanks for a good eye-opening post - also thanks for the commitment to Admin and everybody who runs RWG

[opti]

Nice detective work, the evidence is plain and obvious, they rigged the books

[Bansenshukai]

I recently became a member in RWI - mainly out of curiosity - as I have seen it referenced by other members here from time to time. To be honest, there is a certain "something" missing there that we have here. I can't really put my finger on it. There is a certain seriousness about the hobby of reps, and watches in general, that resonates here that I don't find over there. I can peruse the RWG forum for hours, if so inclined, but I can't stay logged-on more than ten minutes over in RWI; I find it boring to a certain extent. Not to mention that my first, and only, member trade attempt in RWI ended up in the seller selling me an item in a dishonest manner. Although, that happens anywhere, even here (albeit, very rarely), it happened to me for the first time in my life over at RWI. I think that might have also pushed a certain bias on my part. But, even before that even occurred, I felt that there was way more depth and breadth of knowledge in this forum. It's no wonder why we have a larger membership.

[lanikai]

Some say that other foras have more sales/trading going on.. RWG .. IMO is not all about member's selling their goods or is it a totally social network, although we are very social to some extent because of the bonds that are found here. I like to think of the community as the front runner in tech info and knowledge.

With ziggy as our in house horologist and so many members verses on movement knowledge.. Ubi has enough knowledge to fill anyones questions when building Frankens .. Kruzer.. (watchmeister) with genuine Pam parts etc.

I myself abstain from selling my reps for the simple reason that .. U can't please everyone and human nature always wants perfection in items that ate purchases.. And since we are dealing in reps.. I would rather donate my reps to the raffles to further our community.

RWG has always been about pure and detailed knowledge.. So let other foras claim whatever they want ... RWG is what it is...

The best watch forum for reps ... I'm glad it's not totally a social platform .. That can really get boring after awhile..

I suspect no one will raise the question about why the numbers are infalted over at RG for fear of being banned... One thing about RWG that allows certain freedoms compared to other foras ..

[Utheman]

Dunno. As someone who's been around a longass time, hosted message boards, BBSs, irc networks and channels .. it's all about envy and doubt. It's all inside that Admin's head over at RG.

A personal failing.

not too hard to understand.

Off topic here, but Congrats on your 1000th post Jkay!!

[makoberry]

Any answer from RG yet?

[Katerchen]

Thanks a lot... T on bringing up the truth on this issue and

especially on having the guts on speaking OPENLY about it!!

I appreciate very much people with courage... no matter what

others might say about "diplomacy" in the wrong places.

Having said before that most of the time when i am not

online on RWG i am a mostly "read-only-participant" on

other boards just simply because i always liked it here

this thread will keep me even MORE AWAY from active

participating somewhere else and of course also DONATING!!

If i will ever choose to get a donating member - it will be RWG!!

When i first thought about what you wrote, it made no big sense

WHY to cheat on these statistics... to be true, i guess it is

quite simple: MORE members/bigger community - MORE new members (cause

newbies will think HERE are best infos!) - MORE NEW members -

MORE NEW PAYING members - MORE adds - etc. etc. $$$ !!!

Neither aint this place Sparta nor aint it Repgeek... so what??

Thank you on debunking this fraud!

The real George - Γεώργιος

[Eton]

NICE WORK! I like it here, feels right, great community!

Thanks Admin