Guest TTK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) ... Edited September 19, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I sense a lot of back pedalling on your part....either you understand what i sgoing on...or you don't....personally I think your lack of understanding demonstrates that you are inexperienced in this area.....! You're not putting forward a very good rebuttal against my case...in fact you're helping me prove the case....! You say that interpretation of religion is up to the individual.....Islam does not allow interpretation of the doctrines of Muhammed. Nowhere in my posts have I lied about Islam.....everything I posted is directly attributable to the various Sura and Hadith. Your very stance is one which is inculcated within the doctrines of Islam.....denial when it serves you best.....! Either you are Muslim or infidel......Islam doesn't allow you the luxury of on-off devotion......it's a religion which dictates...."either you are with us or you are against us". @blanche......you're taking this very personally......why......i haven't issued any criticism of you PERSONALLY......all I've done is express my thoughts.....that you're young.....that you have little experience.....I haven't said that you are a 'terrorist' or that your country is a terrorist state......it's history is not much different from many other countries.....violence exists in all cultures.....it's just that most other cultures don't export it......which Islam and the culture it has bred....does......unjustifiably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 The Pope did exactly what Gran did: Deliberately encited a violent reaction. Everything you're labelling the Muslims with, you're doing. The Pope, like Gran, has an agenda. We'll know what it is later when fires erupt all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Somebody must have hi-jacked your identity Pugwash......not that you make sense all the time....but certainly not at this time......or is it that we should all stay schtum and refrain from asking any question that might inflame the muslim brotherhood........not f'n likely......! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) @blanche...! s this the way he welcomes newbies and potential clients.[/quote} Being a newbie offers you no protection in a thread of this nature.....if you can't stand the heat....get out of the kitchen....especially if you don't know how to cook.....! Plus....a couple of hundred bucks from you to me..... doesn't buy fealty nor obeisance from me.....all it buys you is a fake watch......not my unswerving loyalty and guarantee that I won't pour ridicule or comment on your posts......good bad or indifferent.....! Edited September 19, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Somebody must have hi-jacked your identity Pugwash......not that you make sense all the time....but certainly not at this time......or is it that we should all stay schtum and refrain from asking any question that might inflame the muslim brotherhood........not f'n likely......! No, I'm just saying that the pope deliberately enflamed them, and knew that's what he was doing. He's still secretly Nazi, in my opinion. He espouses the view that Fascism and the Nazi party were a trick played on the Germans as most of the German people, he claims, didn't realise Nazism was what it was. He's a revisionist and a provocateur. Not what you want at the head of any religion, to be honest. As for antagonising the Muslims, they are their own worst enemy when it comes to this kind of thing and I'm not even going to try to defend them. Not that I'm calling Gran a revisionist and a provocateur, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blancheunal Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) @blanche......you're taking this very personally......why......i haven't issued any criticism of you PERSONALLY......all I've done is express my thoughts.....that you're young.....that you have little experience.....I haven't said that you are a 'terrorist' or that your country is a terrorist state......it's history is not much different from many other countries.....violence exists in all cultures.....it's just that most other cultures don't export it......which Islam and the culture it has bred....does......unjustifiably. Edited September 19, 2006 by blancheunal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Oh yeah, as an Englishman, I just thought it fair to comment that throughout most of my life, I was aware of the terrorist threat that hung over England, and heard bombs go off in the cities where I lived. The terrorists were ostensibly Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blancheunal Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 No, I'm just saying that the pope deliberately enflamed them, and knew that's what he was doing. He's a revisionist and a provocateur. Not what you want at the head of any religion, to be honest. 100% agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 A religion in civilised times should not advocate violence in any way. The key word there is "civilised" I don't beleive most Muslim run states/countries are civilised.......... That is not to say A Muslim cannot BE civilised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Yes, but that particular breed of terrorist had less to do with religion than territorial claims......and more to do with criminal elements who sought to maintain the status quo......after all....drugs and crime are BIG business.....the fact that they indoctrinated their ignorant and naive population is no different from the indoctrination that is being foisted on Muslims today and for the last 1400+ years..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 indoctrination And therein lies the rub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Not that I'm calling Gran a revisionist and a provocateur, of course. Thank God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) And therein lies the rub. 2x essential differences......those particular terrorists didn't expand it beyond the UK borders.....neither did they have expansionist policies in the form of converting the whole world to Catholicism......and eventually saw that the way forward was thru' a peace process...! Islam preaches no acceptance nor discourse with anyone who is not of the faith....in actual fact...it preaches the opposite. With regard to the concept of equality, the idea is unacceptable to Islam. For in all forms of Islamic thought and practice, the non-believer cannot be the equal of the believer. A basic principle of Islamism holds that humanity is divided according to a strict hierarchy of worth. At the top of this hierarchy are free Muslim males, the cream of humanity. Below them, in descending order of humanity, are: Muslim male slaves, free Muslim women, Muslim female slaves, the males of the "People of the Book" (Jews and Christians), and, then, the female of the ‘People of the Book’. Finally, the rest of humanity comes in dead last (excuse the pun); because they lack a soul they are regarded as worthless having no rights whatsoever. This unfortunate final grouping includes Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, and others. But before Jews and Christians celebrate escaping last-place in this uniquely Islamic popularity contest, the fine print should first be carefully studied. Quotes referencing Christians and Jews from the Qur’an include: – "Worst of Creatures, Perverse, and Friends of Satan". The clear direction from Muhammad appears to be that Muslims are not allowed to even be friends or take favors from Jews and Christians, unless that devotion/tax is extracted by force or threat of force. Christians and Jews then and now hold a special place in Islamic theology, and are presented in a hateful manner in the Qur’an and in modern Islamic theology today. In the end they were regarded with contempt by Muhammad, the final words reported from the mouth of the dying Prophet were a curse on them "Allah's damnation be on the Jews and the Christians …." 98:6 Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures. 5:51 O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong­doers and unjust). Many who have known devout followers of Allah have felt the distance between themselves and their associates. This anti-social philosophy also goes a long way to explain the experiences of many women who have married Muslims, only to be turned into slaves or otherwise treated harshly. In the officially ‘state sponsored’ Wahhabi controlled elementary schools in Saudi Arabia (our alleged ally in the war on terror), there is a fifth-grade lesson book that reads as follows: "It is forbidden for a Muslim to be a friend of one who does not believe in Allah and his Messenger or who fights the Islamic religion. God has severed the [link of] friendship between Muslims and infidels. The Muslim, even if he lives far away, is your brother-in-belief, while the infidel, even if he is your brother of kin, is your enemy by religion." It is the Qur’an itself that directs Muslims to break friendship and business ties and other allegiances. The Qur’an even takes this a step further. 58:22 You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Ruh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself. And We will admit them to Gardens (Paradise) under which rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever). Allah is pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Verily, it is the Party of Allah that will be the successful. Edited September 19, 2006 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Isn't the Pope infallible? i.e. He doesn't make mistakes. JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Isn't the Pope infallible? i.e. He doesn't make mistakes. JTB Jokes aside JTB Many non-Catholics, and even some Catholics, wrongly believe that the doctrine teaches that the Pope is infallible in everything he says. In reality, the use of papal infallibility is quite rare. That the pope is "infallible" is true but just when..the Roman Pontiff speaks ex cathedra, that is, when in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed His church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the church, irreformable. I think...but certainly te latelest remarks by the pope wre not ex cathedra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 @Slayer......where do you pull these facts from.......NOBODY in Asia or Africa i skilling innocents in the name of Christendom......massacres are taking place because of territorial / warlord disputes. Show me any Christian fundamentalists that are comitting genocide.....go back to serving drinks behind your bar...and have another few yourself...... take a look here (since you are such a renaissance-man, you probably understand german, if not, as a renaissance men you should be capable of using a translator, or you ask "gunther" to translate it for you): http://www.zeit.de/2004/23/Missionare_Nigeria "Die Zeit" does broadsheet journalism. Its not like the sun or anything like that. Both sides, chrstians and muslims are SLAUGHTERING for their religion, and the doing of the christians is compared to the crusades. THe headline is: "Christliche Fundamentalisten rüsten in Afrika für einen neuen Kreuzzug." which comes down to this: "Christian fundamentalists are preparing for a new crussade in Africa" So please shut about about all christians not being fundamentalists and not slaughtering for their religion. There's always black sheeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) Oh yeah, as an Englishman, I just thought it fair to comment that throughout most of my life, I was aware of the terrorist threat that hung over England, and heard bombs go off in the cities where I lived. The terrorists were ostensibly Christian. lol didnt your read what the master-ttk said (the one that also claimed, that all afro americans should go back to the bushes where they came from)? christians are not terrorists, and christians dont kill for their religion. How CAN you dig this conflict out and make him lose his face? with christians its ALWAYS (!!!) teritorial! The Israel-Palestine conflict is not treritorial at all! And when catholic irishmen threw rocks at protestant irish schoolchildren, thats was teritorial and NOT because of their religion. Of course Edited September 19, 2006 by slay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 @Gran......just like when Americans claim that there were 3000 "AMERICANS" killed on 9/11......you're very much mistaken when you say....! office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, The Pope is not the shepherd of all Christians......all Catholics perhaps....Christians....NO...! @Slayer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Religion is always used as a tool by politicians. We ve seen how the God told Bush to invade Iraq, but we all know religion has nothing to do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 And when catholic irishmen threw rocks at protestant irish schoolchildren, thats was teritorial and NOT because of their religion. Of course If you're talking in the last 10 years, I think you'll find it was protestant men throwing rocks at catholic schoolchildren. JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 If you're talking in the last 10 years, I think you'll find it was protestant men throwing rocks at catholic schoolchildren. I think you'll find it was both sides commiting atrocities in the name of the same god and country. Neither side in Northern Ireland has anything to be proud about, regardless of which Glaswegian footie team you support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I think you'll find it was both sides commiting atrocities in the name of the same god and country. Neither side in Northern Ireland has anything to be proud about, regardless of which Glaswegian footie team you support. Now now Puggy...........football is never a bedfellow in my viewpoints on Ireland besides which Celtic never adopted sectarian business practices..........unlike others. JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekhunter Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 No, I'm just saying that the pope deliberately enflamed them, and knew that's what he was doing. He's still secretly Nazi, in my opinion. He espouses the view that Fascism and the Nazi party were a trick played on the Germans as most of the German people, he claims, didn't realise Nazism was what it was. He's a revisionist and a provocateur. Not what you want at the head of any religion, to be honest. As for antagonising the Muslims, they are their own worst enemy when it comes to this kind of thing and I'm not even going to try to defend them. Not that I'm calling Gran a revisionist and a provocateur, of course. Did you just call the Pope a Nazi? You've got to be kidding? Say Hello to Hitler and Stalin when you see them in HELL. I don't think the Pope is perfect, but as a Catholic, I definately take offense, and I think that you crossed the line calling him a Nazi. Will anyone go on this forum calling for your Death. I don't think so. So, you do realize that had you just called Mohammed a Nazi, then you would have gotten a special package in your mail soon that would have gone kaboom! That is the difference in the two right there. Tolerance and Forgiveness. Can the Muslim extremist do either. I don't think so. I would recommend you do some reading on Germany and the National Socialist in the 20's and early 30's to see how they were able to do what they did. I assume you aren't saying all Germans are Nazis, but if you are referring to the Pope's childhood as a Hitler Youth, do you really think that this young child in Germany in the early 40's had a choice. Come on now! Before you answer that, think about it for a second. Had we (Allies) lost the war, people would be talking about our Boy Scout backgrounds as a bad thing. Remember the movie 'Red Dawn'. I think this entire thread has spiraled down and down, and is only going to turn more and more people against each other with all of the name calling and accusations. I mean, think about it, going on a 'Watch Forum' and calling the Pope a Nazi is ridiculous and just ignorant. Pugwash, you should know better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 @Gran......just like when Americans claim that there were 3000 "AMERICANS" killed on 9/11......you're very much mistaken when you say....! The Pope is not the shepherd of all Christians......all Catholics perhaps....Christians....NO...! Naturally you are correct again Neil. I should have read what I post much more carefully. I am deeply sorry about this (when reread) obvious error. g. @ekhunter yes I agree with you the pope is a Catholic and not that other silly n thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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