What to say about Patek?

[RobbieG]

To be honest the brand never turned me on design-wise. I was always more partial to VC and have now owned two (still own one) but of course like any sane person always had the absolute unwaivering respect for the brand and its traditions. It is after all one of the big three and to say its contributions to horology are vast would be an understatement. When I bought my Patrimony Traditionelle a 5119 Calatrava was the other option and VC won out by a narrow margin for reasons not really important to this post. But two things I witnessed today have really changed my opinion of the brand.

So I'm in the AD hanging with the owner and the watchmaker there both of whom are friends and it is summer and dead so we have the loupe out and are checking lots of watches out for details. I didn't want to insult the owner, but I scrutinized several Patek movements including two Calatrava watches, a "cost more than the GNP of a small country" perpetual calendar, and a 5070 chrono and I have to say I couldn't believe how sloppy the finsish work in the movements were. Flat spots on the bevels, unpolished spots, nicked screw slots - I mean BAD. Really bad. Couldn't believe it. Without letting on as the owner was raving to me saying "see how amazing they are, etc." I asked to see a Rolex movement by comparison. My buddy the watchmaker had a modern sub he just bought nearly new so we took the caseback off and checked that out. I have to say, though of course I had seen many before I never looked so closely and it was dead f'n perfect. I mean we all know the 3135 isn't finished anywhere near so fancy but the stuff that counts to me, bevels, polish consistency, perlage consistency, no trace of screw damage, etc. was way better than any of the Pateks. Again, I couldn't believe how bad they were for all that money. They also had a used VC Malte Regulator in the store and that was also pretty much perfect in terms of movement finish. Not to pick entirely on Patek I looked at a UN Sonata movement and that was so bad I'm taking it off the list. Horrible. Actually the 2892 based movement in my UN GMT is way better than that but still nowhere near the 3135 or VC stuff. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that. Pretty amazing really for a brand that loves to blow its own horn so much about timeless perfection...

Here is the other thing that blew my mind. While I'm in there a guy brings his Patek in for service. Not sure what it was exactly but it wasn't a high complication that is for sure. I think one of the Calatrava watches, just not the hobnail design. Anyway he tells the story that he had the watch on the closedt toilet seat upside down on a towel while showering and when he got out he forgot it was there, moved the towel and the watch fell a couple feet down onto a padded bath mat. I have done similar moves many times with ETA and Rolex watches and of course that is really nothing for those to withstand as we all know. No surpise the Patek stopped since they have a reputation for being fragile but it wasn't destroyed or anything. No damage to the case or visible movement damage. Probably nothing too drastic really. Anyway get this: He asks how long to get it serviced at Patek, they make a call and come back and said what sounded to me like 6 to 8 weeks. So the guy gets ready to leave it and says again "OK, 6-8 weeks then - you will call me?", and the owner goes "No, 68 weeks.". Sixty-eight weeks - more than a year to get a simple repair on a watch. Just hearing that made me even more sure I would never buy one, even if I did happen to really like one of their designs in the future. Imagine what they might quote for a complicated watch. I didn't catch the cost of service but I remember hearing somewhere that just basic service and cleaning of a handwind starts at $900.

Anyway, I thought some of you might find all this interesting though I'm sure many won't be surprised. I sure was - mostly about the level of finish...

[FxrAndy]

68 Fcuking weeks

[BROM]

The part about the finish was the most surprising is the finish.

I always thought that was the reason for the price.

[asf]

I'm blown away by the lack of fine polish of the watches. Was it a closed case back? I winder if the Patel watch makers just think people don't actually look

[TeeJay]

Sixty eight weeks???

What're they going to be doing in that time? Surely it can't be an issue of parts availability, hell, they could make replacement parts and fit them quicker than that :bangin:

You know how car dealerships will sometimes issue a 'courtesy car' while yours is in the shop? I hope Patek will operate under a similar principle for that guy's watch

[RobbieG]

All exhibition backs guys. They look fine to the naked eye and OK with a loupe...unless you know what you look for. Subtle, but unmistakeable. Screw head perfection is 101 stuff as is consistency of polish. I hate to think what the movement parts I can't see look like. They are cutting corners no doubt. If you ever get a chance to really look at a Rolex movement I think you would be surprised how well finshed they are since they aren't really known for it. In their case that is because of superior automation as opposed to hand finshing like everything they do in that respect but still impress nonetheless.

And if you really want a sexual charge similar to that first time you saw a naked chick in a girlie mag when you were 12, look at any Lange & Sohne movement with a loupe. Make you wanna smack yo mama...

[pollux1]

Unreal, if Pateks are touted as "perfection" They certainly failed on that one. It would be interesting if anyone was a member of a Patek forum and had the members scrutinize their watches.

[redwatch]

Ok...this has already been said, but..... 68 WEEKS???? Really?? You would think with a brand name like Patek that it would be like a Rolls Royce with lifetime service. That is unbelievable! Imagine if that watch was only a couple of weeks or months old?

[FxrAndy]

I would like to point out that much of rolexes finishing is done by computer controlled robots (there is even a film some where on the web) and Patek by hand, but that is not an excuse for sloppy work , but fcuk me 68 weeks?????????????????

[RobbieG]

Yeah no doubt on the Rolex computer finishing. But damn, that to me is a marvel in itself. The brand really is ahead of the rest in that department. It is harder than one would think to have a machine make something that perfect. Their dials & hands too. Just something about them.

But yeah, 68 week. And yes as a matter of fact the guy did say the watch was new. I forget what he said - not weeks, but some months only for sure. Within the warranty period...

The thing is 90% of Patek owners wouldn't know what they are looking at anyway just like any other brand. The patrons aren't like us. The movements no doubt dazzle all of them who can't see past the shine of the perlage and Geneva Waves. I'm talking minute details here. But again, any movement from Patek, Vacheron, AP, or Lange should be dead perfect or as close to it as any human can get it after going over it with a fine tooth comb again and again. I mean even Rolex assemblers (they are stocked undialed, unbezeled and unbraceleted in the vault prior to order filling)keep each watch for almost a week before boxing and shipping after assembly and several people check every part of it several times to spot mistakes. That Patek could let stuff like that out blows my mind.

[sander]

I once dropped my IWC Da Vinci Rattrapante and f.cked up the movement.

It took them almost 17 months to repair it and the cost was more than

[RobbieG]

Speaking of perfection...

The Lange 951 - the handwound column wheel chrono in the Datograph has yet to disappoint:

[redwatch]

Now that is a stunning movement!!! Look at the engraving detail around and underneath the regulator!! Beautiful work there!

[txcollector]

if this was a vintage model I'd understand (manufacture new parts, fit, test, etc. all by hand). With a new model that's absurd.

On the finish I wonder if they are cutting corners to save money. The entry level ones like the Calatrava will probably suffer the most. Also I've heard skilled workers are in fast decline so their bandwidth is probably very limited.

It's a shame. Such a powerful name in the industry.

[RobbieG]

Now that is a stunning movement!!! Look at the engraving detail around and underneath the regulator!! Beautiful work there!

Each balance [censored] on every Lange is unique. Hang engraved with patterns specific to each engraver. Cool stuff you have to see in person to appreciate. The cocks are done like that on all Lange movements...

[nakortheblue]

You never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely leave it at the service center for the next generation.

[P4GTR]

Patek never really "hit" me. I've never taken to them.

I'm glad to hear this story, especially from RG, so I actually believe it. Bonus for having similar taste, and double bonus for posting a pic of one of my favorite movements.

JL, for example I like, as a replacement for that real serious in house haute horlogerie timepiece in the watchbox.

[Jkay]

Now that is a stunning movement!!! Look at the engraving detail around and underneath the regulator!! Beautiful work there!

The Senator Sixties rep has that as well

[Ronin]

Amazing that a fall 18" onto a bath mat killed the watch. Not very good shock protection.

On the flip side, while the movement may not be pretty, my $900 "Ball - Fireman II" with Ball modified ETA movement is rated to 5000 G's!!!!

[RobbieG]

You never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely leave it at the service center for the next generation.

...or maybe it should be "merely leave it at the service center until the next generation"?

[TeeJay]

Patek never really "hit" me. I've never taken to them.

Likewise, but by the same token, I've never been keen on APs either, so I guess I just don't resonate to Genta's design work

[RobbieG]

Patek never really "hit" me. I've never taken to them.

I'm glad to hear this story, especially from RG, so I actually believe it. Bonus for having similar taste, and double bonus for posting a pic of one of my favorite movements.

JL, for example I like, as a replacement for that real serious in house haute horlogerie timepiece in the watchbox.

Yeah, like I said the designs never knocked me out, nor has JL really. Of the Swiss royalty only Vacheron and to a lesser extent AP ever really grabbed me. Although I don't love the sports watches enough to covet one - did have a Millenary though which was weird but nice.

When it comes to haute dress pieces the German contingent has grabbed me more. I want a Langmatik Perpetual like I used to wany pussy when I was 18...

...I wish it was as cheap as that was when I was 18 though. Fifty grand plus for a watch is going to be a pretty big psychological leap for me - or anybody I would imagine.

[Logan]

I've heard some horror stories about service times on various brands.. but 68 weeks is insane.. Really, why buy something that will spend anything up to one third of its life (if you follow recommended service times) sitting in a drawer in a work shop somewhere.

You pay so much and don't even have it in your possession. Do Patek actually expect owners to wear these thing or just admire them under a loupe from time to time?

[praetor]

wow, quite surprised. Something else I've found, they use fake alligator straps on Baselworld. Take note gen owners.

2:31

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brIUiVtGt6Q

Edited July 16, 2010 by praetor

[chefcook]

Actually my experience with patek is quite opposite.

I never had any spots not perfectly finished on my pateks. To date Calatrava 5296G and Gondolo 5098R - currently I am waiting for the arrival of a Nautilus 5980 chronograph. I sold the dressy Pateks to fund the Nautilus chrono. What I've seen on my fathers Pateks regarding service times they were not longer than Rolex (but not faster, too): About 8 weeks.

The only gen Rolex I stall have is this Oyster Perpetual modded with Explorer hands:

http://i42.tinypic.com/14j2mhw.jpg

I used to have Submariner Date 16610, Submariner 14060M, Exlorer 114270 and GMT Master II 116710 and all of them had serious quality issues. The bezel insert on the 14060M did not keep in place (bezel machined to big!), the 16610 gained four minutes a day when new (Rolex took two attempts and half a year of waiting to solve the problem!!), the Explorer lost two indices on the dial while going for a walk in the forrest and the GMT never was and never got water proof.

I am finished with Rolex. The Oyster Perpetual did not have problems so far but since I don't wear it it has to go in near future.

The watches I am most happy with are my Omegas (Planet Ocean and PloProf): They are less expensive than their Rolex competitors, their built quality is outstanding and Omegas service is nothing other than perfect - at least here in Europe. They are perfect every day watches, IMO.

But you gotta have something very nice for the weekend, so I got the Pateks.

The only watch I'd really like to have but won't buy are Audemars Piguets. Their service is really horrible - waiting a year for the service is normal.

Next on the dream list is the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, but German Blancpain service sucks, too.