New 7753

[pismo]

Hello all, i've saw the new Pam, so i wich my long long wait for a no recesse (& correct font) date could exist on navi !

So any info if this new A 7753 could be put in or even B01 ?

Have a nice sunday.

[cougaree]

That would be nice! In fact, I believe 7753 movement will improve many other watches as well.

[Migge]

Only problem is that the Navi uses a modified 7753 that sets the date via the crown, the standard 7753 sets the date via a pusher, so unfortunately I dont see the factories making this just yet.....Unfortunately.....

Mike

[SMIDSY]

you could always get a gen 7754 and franken it =)

[hackR]

this new a7753 movement appears to be a a7750 in disguise...which means that it might work...i watching this closely...

not sure how the new a7753 changes the date...but if by the pusher, we're screwed...

[cougaree]

Bad news

I think I may have to go with gen route... if I really want one (not sure at this point).

Edited September 20, 2010 by cougaree

[andreww]

this new a7753 movement appears to be a a7750 in disguise...which means that it might work...i watching this closely...

not sure how the new a7753 changes the date...but if by the pusher, we're screwed...

Yeah, I spoke to Josh about this movement. It is supposed to be a direct copy of the 7753, not a bastardized 7750. Like the gen 7753 it has a 10:00 pusher to advance the date. Breitling modifies its 7753s to add a date function via the crown, so according to Josh, an 7753 Navi isn't going to happen.

As for creating a franken, same rules apply as with the gen 7753. You'll need a 6-9-12 case, a7753 movement, gen dial. You still won't have a source for a datewheel though.

[chronoluvvv]

oh well i knew it was too good to be true

thanks for your valuable insights Andrewwwwwwwww

[redwatch]

As for creating a franken, same rules apply as with the gen 7753. You'll need a 6-9-12 case, a7753 movement, gen dial. You still won't have a source for a datewheel though.

Question for you Andrew. What is the difference in the case? Isn't it the same 7750 movement? Or is it because the tri-compax rep case needs to be thicker to accommodate the modded 7750?

[DuDro]

You can always change the date by advancing the hour hand, so you would lose the quick-set date function...

[sneed12]

Question for you Andrew. What is the difference in the case? Isn't it the same 7750 movement? Or is it because the tri-compax rep case needs to be thicker to accommodate the modded 7750?

I think that the cases ARE the same, and that is why the 6-9-12 cases still have sunken DW... even though there's no transfer plate there is room to put one.

[andreww]

I think that the cases ARE the same, and that is why the 6-9-12 cases still have sunken DW... even though there's no transfer plate there is room to put one.

No the cases are different. The movements are the same, but the tricompax has extra transfer gears on top of the datewheel. The amount that the datewheel is recessed is equal to the amount that the crown tube has been moved toward the back of the case. Just imagine the transfer gears as a spacer of sorts, it pushes the entire movement back about one millimeter. So the case is modified to accept the movements new position. Because the 7753 has the same dimensions as a 7750, it will only fit in the 6,9,12 case.

The other issue is that the date window on a 7753 is slightly more outboard than a 7750, so the rep dial simply won't work with the 7753 movement, you need a gen dial. Lastly, there is no way to advance the date beyond durning the hour hand 24 complete rotation for each single day. I once had a Navi with a broken date set, and believe me, you don't want to do that.

Personally, build a perfect Navi, and put the date button at 10:00. Not perfect, but the best we'll get.

[redwatch]

What about using a 2892 with a Dubois Depraz chrono module? Which Navi's had that movement (if any?)

[hackR]

i'm a little confused...if you read the compare of this new movement with a gen 7753, Panerai guys are saying its a modified 7750...the date window is in the 7750 position and not the 7753 position...

notwithstanding a potential tube/stem alignment issue (which may definitely still be there), if this new movement is 7750-based, then there still might be hope for us tri-compax owners...but we would have to manual advance the date...and as A says, we still wouldn't have the proper datewheel...but we would have a flat datewheel...i'm still holding out hope - and will know more once a respected modder dissects the a7753...

check out this post from PaulVanDyke: a7753 and eta7753 compare post

[polexpete]

No the cases are different. The movements are the same, but the tricompax has extra transfer gears on top of the datewheel. The amount that the datewheel is recessed is equal to the amount that the crown tube has been moved toward the back of the case. Just imagine the transfer gears as a spacer of sorts, it pushes the entire movement back about one millimeter. So the case is modified to accept the movements new position. Because the 7753 has the same dimensions as a 7750, it will only fit in the 6,9,12 case.

The other issue is that the date window on a 7753 is slightly more outboard than a 7750, so the rep dial simply won't work with the 7753 movement, you need a gen dial. Lastly, there is no way to advance the date beyond durning the hour hand 24 complete rotation for each single day. I once had a Navi with a broken date set, and believe me, you don't want to do that.

Personally, build a perfect Navi, and put the date button at 10:00. Not perfect, but the best we'll get.

Hey Andrew... after building one tricompax with gen 7753 seems only the slowbeat A7750 cases will fit a gen movement. I brought a highbeat A7750 6-9-12 and the case is the same as the 3-6-9 and will not fit a gen movement.

Anyone wanting to build a franken Navi with a gen movement has to have an older slowbeat case..

Also i don't find it a problem having no quickset date on the tricompax, especially if you keep it on a winder. My 7734 powered Tudor Monte Carlo has no quickset date either you can live with it...

I think we need a roll call of all member who have a slowbeat 6-9-12 Navi they want to sell to members wanting to build a Franken

Cheers

P.

[redwatch]

I think we need a roll call of all member who have a slowbeat 6-9-12 Navi they want to sell to members wanting to build a Franken

+1,000,000!!!! I definitely want to be on some sort of list to buy a case!!! Dial and movement - no problem. Case with decent slide rule that accepts gen parts, not so easy.

[sneed12]

No the cases are different.

The rep cases? I doubt it.

The movements are the same, but the tricompax has extra transfer gears on top of the datewheel. The amount that the datewheel is recessed is equal to the amount that the crown tube has been moved toward the back of the case. Just imagine the transfer gears as a spacer of sorts, it pushes the entire movement back about one millimeter. So the case is modified to accept the movements new position.

Yes, I understand.

Here's my 6-9-12 Navi with sunken DW:

I bought it hoping that without a transfer plate, I wouldn't have to worry about a sunken datewheel, but that's not the case. If you think about it, what are the chances that the rep manufacturers were going to design and build a second Navi rep case with a slightly different stem height? Why would they do that if they could just do what I think they did, throw a regular a7750 into a a7750+tricompax rep case. Even with the sunken DW they sell just fine.

[redwatch]

Direct quote from Ofrei.com:

This is it!...Everybody asked for the Valjoux 7750 with the register hands at 3, 6 & 9, well that's the Valjoux 7753, which is the same movement as the Val 7750 except the 7753 again has the register hands at 3, 6 & 9, the date is at 4 and has no day indicator. The current batch we have feature Incabloc Shock System and 27 jewels.

[cougaree]

No the cases are different. The movements are the same, but the tricompax has extra transfer gears on top of the datewheel. The amount that the datewheel is recessed is equal to the amount that the crown tube has been moved toward the back of the case. Just imagine the transfer gears as a spacer of sorts, it pushes the entire movement back about one millimeter. So the case is modified to accept the movements new position. Because the 7753 has the same dimensions as a 7750, it will only fit in the 6,9,12 case.

The other issue is that the date window on a 7753 is slightly more outboard than a 7750, so the rep dial simply won't work with the 7753 movement, you need a gen dial. Lastly, there is no way to advance the date beyond durning the hour hand 24 complete rotation for each single day. I once had a Navi with a broken date set, and believe me, you don't want to do that.

Personally, build a perfect Navi, and put the date button at 10:00. Not perfect, but the best we'll get.

I don't mind that at all. Navitimer with date button, I can live with that.

[chefcook]

Yeah, I spoke to Josh about this movement. It is supposed to be a direct copy of the 7753, not a bastardized 7750. Like the gen 7753 it has a 10:00 pusher to advance the date. Breitling modifies its 7753s to add a date function via the crown, so according to Josh, an 7753 Navi isn't going to happen.

As for creating a franken, same rules apply as with the gen 7753. You'll need a 6-9-12 case, a7753 movement, gen dial. You still won't have a source for a datewheel though.

That the 7753 in gen Navitimers is modified simply is not true.

On a gen Navitimer you have to change the date by running the time through several days until you reach the current date, so no quick set.

The only thing the rep factories would have to do is a new dial and date wheel. The old 6-9-12 case is a straight fit as you already mentioned. The A7753 will work in this combo just like the gen does, too.

[cougaree]

What about using a 2892 with a Dubois Depraz chrono module? Which Navi's had that movement (if any?)

It's in Bentley Flying-B Chronograph (Cal 44), Navitimer 92 (Cal 30), Navitimer Olympus (Cal 19), Navitimer Heritage (Cal 35), Navitimer QP 95 (Cal 18), Navitimer 1952 SE (Cal 41), Navitimer Spatiographe (Cal 36), Navitimer Twin Sixty (Cal 39), Navitimer Twin Sixty 2 (Cal 39), Navitimer Premier (Cal 40)...

They are pretty much all over the board with modified 2892 movement. The problem is, to franken Navitimer, one not only needs to source the movement, also the dial and correct case... That becomes difficult IMHO.

[cougaree]

Breitling Movement Base Movement

B01 Calibre Breitling, first and only in-house movement

B10 ETA 2892-A2

B11 Lemania 1873

B12 Lemania 187

B13 Valjoux 7750

B17 ETA 2824

B18 ETA 2892-A2

B19 ETA 2892-A2

B20 Valjoux 7750

B22 ETA 2892-A2

B24 Valjoux 7754

B26 ETA 2892-A2

B30 ETA 2892-A2

B33 ETA 2892-A2

B34 ETA 1185/86

B35 ETA 2892

B36 ETA 2892

B38 ETA 2892-A2

B39 ETA 2892-A2

B40 ETA 2892-A2

B41 ETA 2892

B42 ETA 2892

B43 Valjoux 7758

B44 ETA 2892

B45 ETA 2834-2

Note: The ETA 2892 movements used in Breitling chronographs have been modified by the addition of a chronograph module by Dubois/Depraz.[citation needed]

[andreww]

That the 7753 in gen Navitimers is modified simply is not true.

On a gen Navitimer you have to change the date by running the time through several days until you reach the current date, so no quick set.

Not sure about that. From what i understand, and remember seeing, is that on the gen Navi you run it to 12:00 a.m. and the date changes. You then back it up over 12:00, then forward again and the date changes once more. You don't have to run around the dial 24 time to change the date once. I'll do some checking to verify this.

[ExtraExtra]

Wonder if they can use these 7753 in the existing Breitling Legende?

[importr]

When I had a gen Navitimer with cal.23 (7753) - it never had a quickset date.

So the only way to change the date was to keep advancing the hours.

I don't think that you could rock the hour hand between midnight to quickset the date either. I'm quite certain that i already tried that.

The other gripe was that, if the actual date was 25th for example, and the watch was showing 23rd, you could not rewind the hours to go backwards in date - i had to keep turning the crown forwards for up to 5 mins to arrive at the correct date.

As you can imagine, this pi$$ed me off no end, so i sold it.

****

Extract from TZ:

Q: Navitimer D23322

Hello everybody, I have a Breitling Navitimer D23322 made on the 27th week of 2003, it has a Breitling Caliber 23 (ETA 7753) movement, I have a question, I can pull out the crown to two different positions being three in all but in the middle one there is no action, the quick date set feature does not work, I took the watch to the watchmaker and he tells me there is a working quick set mechanism in the movement but no "hole" in the case for it, he inspected the watch and movement and told me it is authentic for sure, is this normal or the movement is not the correct one for this case? Any ideas?

Thank you in advance.

A: The correct reason for your crown issue is....

that Breitling had to delete the quickset date function which is standard on the predecessor caliber 13. Moving the subdials from 6, 9 and 12 o'clock to the "tri-compax" position (3,6,9 o'clock) for your caliber 23 Navitimer meant losing real estate (space) in the movement for the quickset complication. The mechanical crown steps remain but the first position is simply not functional. Many enthusiasts prefer the "tri-compax" subdial positions because they are reminiscent of the original 806 Navitimers and are more "classic" in their view. Other owners (myself included) prefer the 6, 9, 12 positions for the Valjoux 7750 movement because the subdial positions seem to "balance" the crown and pushers better as well as having the added bonus of the quickset date complication. Hope this helps...

Best,

Ron