By-Tor Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 A Tudor Submariner rep? Yes, finally. I always wanted one and I almost became obsessed with it. Why rep and not genuine, because genuines can be purchased for reasonable prices? But just like Ubi says: "Where's the fun in that?" And besides... who would want to read a review of a genuine Tudor? Reps and frankenwatches are much more fascinating. Still, does a Tudor rep make sense, especially when the MBW watches are more expensive than any average Rolex reps... in the $400 range? I think it's a matter of opinion, really. Does ANYTHING we do here make sense? If I like how something looks and I really like the watch I'll just get it, and seeing a rep like this available doesn't happen every day. And since I traded my MBW 1680 I've been without a Sub for quite a while. And for some strange reason I can't stomach wearing a Rolex Submariner rep anymore, it's just so obvious and "run-of-the-mill". I really like the classic design of the Sub, especially the no-date model... and this particular "Snowflake hands Tudor" happened to be my "dream Sub". Perhaps buying a Tudor Sub has something to do with the Panerai craze? People don't know what it is and thus don't suspect a replica. With Tudor you get complete Rolex design without the Rolex prestige/potential fake factor. This is probably not the first choice for the average Joe or Bubba who comes here and buys his quick Sub... just to impress his workmates with a fake Rolex. Tudor (gens and reps) are for real watch nuts like us. Ok, I probably need my head examined because I paid $400 for a Tudor rep. But I get some perverse satisfaction from the forger's art. And I can tell you that this particular model, "Tudor Military Sub" with "snowflake hands" can't be purchased for cheap. According to my research all 100% genuine Military Subs have been priced around $1700 and up... and are constantly climbing up. And yes, mine is a MBW watch with extra parts. The gen uses the case construction of Rolex caliber 5513, with just different hands and hour markers (and basic ETA movement of course). It was advertised on TRC by Watchmaster. From a quick look it looks genuine, but eagle eyed Tudor/Rolex vintage WIS will quickly spot the differences. Winding crown and hands aren't 100% identical, especially the minute hand, which is too thick. First I thought the movement was genuine, but the RWG gang quickly found out that it's actually a ETA 2842 (21.600 beats per hour) movement with just "TUDOR" engraved on the rotor. This particular movement is rough, but according to this Walt Odet's TimeZone article it should be very good and reliable. It's used in genuine Oris, Raymond Weil and Swatch watches. The slower beat is barely recognizable, and what makes it interesting is that there's variation among the genuines. For example THIS "French Navy" version has ETA 2776 movement with BPH of 19.600. The crown guards were off as well, but I modified them myself to look like genuine. More about this later on this review. This is how the ETA 2842 looks inside my watch (rep on the left, genuine movement on the right): The clasp is a non-fliplock Rolex clasp without diver's extension. I'm not sure what kind of bracelet the genuine Military Sub uses, but many owners have put it on a NATO strap. See this site to check some different variations. Here's the caseback. What is the rep and where does it come from? Another good question. The only Tudor Submariner rep we've seen was the Ubiquitous' great FrankenTudor. My rep apparently uses the standard MBW 1680 case, thick bezel and domed crystal from a MBW vintage SeaDweller, which looks pretty much spot on for this no-date model. I seriously doubt this rep is in production anywhere. Someone has changed the dial, hands and movement and created a nice one-of-a-kind watch. PART 2: HOW TO MODIFY THE CROWN GUARDS OF THE MBW WATCHES Since this review is indeed about one-of-a-kind watch it doesn't have much practical value for anyone. So I decided to do something special this time. I had never, ever done any mods and I used to think the guards are impossible to modify properly. And if guys like RedBigJoe and Palpatine can't make them look like genuine then how could anyone else? Then I found these pictures by Sherrington. Those pics inspired me to attempt the modificiations myself. Of course I was hesitant at first... and was afraid that I could ruin my watch. But then I decided to do it anyway. What the hell...no guts no glory! When I received my watch it had too fat crown guards like all MBW watches. Luckily someone had already modified the guards on my watch from the top, and made the surface around the crown flatter. This was good news since I only had to make the guards thinner and reshape the outer surface now. Because of this I didn't need to remove the crown and stem, either. The key to make good looking guards IS TO MODIFY THEM ALL OVER. The top and outside surface are much more important than just drilling the guards thinner from the inside. If the guard shape is way off from the beginning then drilling the insides is not going to help much. Go overboard and you end up having ridiculous looking gaps around the crown... and still have wrongly shaped guards. Whatever you do...don't pay a dime for bastardized "guard shaping mods" like this to anyone. Like I said: Making them flat from the top is the first step. On the MBW watches the guards start to "curve down" right away which makes the appearance dead wrong. Unmodded MBW 1680 is on the left, genuine on the right. See the wrong curve and difference in thickness as well. As you can see the guard length is almost ok and doesn't need to be touched much. The genuine guards curve down very moderately, and more from the "tip" of the guard. From the front view the guards look straight and spiky on all Subs I've seen. Vintage Submariner guards look like "chops". See THIS reference picture to see what I mean. Here's a quick "tutorial pic" of the basics: So what complicated devices I used to modify the guards? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Just a hand file and some sandpaper. Then I repolished the case with stainless steel polishing paste. Just like Sherrington I looked at the genuine pictures and learned how the gen guards are shaped. Then I just removed the bezel and started shaping up the case with sandpaper. It took a few hours from start to finish. It was surprisingly easy, you just need a lot of patience. My thumb was a bit sore after the treatment though. Using sandpaper is (imho) the best option because it's quite slow, you can move it smoothly across the case and guards... and thus you can easily control even the smallest details of the reshaping process. I don't think it's even possible to "ruin" the watch with this method providing you know exactly what shape you're aiming for. I'd advice inexperienced modders (like me) to stay away from Dremels because making one little mistake can create irreversible damage to the case. I'm not particularly "handy" person and I had never done any watch mods...and yet I got the guards look good on my first try. I'm not saying this because I'm bragging about it, I'm just telling you it's definitely not any rocket science. Anyone could do it... and I really encourage everyone to try the cg mods themselves. Why would you pay someone hundreds of dollars for something so easy and simple? Here's the finished product: Modifying your own watch and getting satisfactory results is extremely rewarding. I think I'd eventually try to source a gen pearl and crown for this watch. Perhaps gen hands too? I'm very happy how the crown guards turned out... and needless to say I'm very happy with my Dream Sub. If you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to ask them in this thread. Thanks for looking (again). Special thanks to Randy for helping me out and answering my questions when I was in the verge of purchasing this watch. I'm really glad I bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Great Review as allways Your WM tudor is a nice and extremly rare piece... I also have a gen Tudor Sub, old one with Rolex stammped crown... I love it ... wear this nice timepiece well... Rg Tribal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Great post By-tor! Dremels for me are a no go! Too risky! Love the Tudor sub I have bought a 1680 pretty much with the intention of changing it at some stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heywood Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 That's a great looking watch and a good informative review. Thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Beautiful! Absolutely gorgeous! And... Even more so after your CG shaping!! I love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighDef Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Gorgeous watch By-Tor. How come we do not see a rep of this arround. Thanks for the write up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Excellent review, and wonderful tutorial as usual Thanks, -MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted September 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Big thanks everyone. I thought this was going to be my last watch (and review) for quite a while. But now River just posted pics of the new "Bond" Seamaster chronograph which I absolutely HAVE to get. When will this madness end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iglutikut Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 That is one nice Tudor!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce79 Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 Great post...very informative too. I think you have inspired me to mod my cgs. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Thanks for the great post By-tor and congratulations on a truly beautiful watch. On a sidenote - I think the Tudors are widely underrated - they are very good watches sharing a lot of the Rolex design & technology (Oystercase, Triplock Crown....) but they have a much better value4money ratio. The way Rolex is planing to position Tudor in the future, some of that might change...but that is a different story. I have a gen Tudor Chrono (Ref 79280) with oyster wristband in my collection and it is a great watch. Comfy to wear, keeps excellent time, waterproof, rugged and beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Thanks all. Oh yeah, that Ubi Tudor is wonderful. I wish he had sold it to me back then. Well... now I have my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I think you have inspired me to mod my cgs. Great! Keep us posted... and feel free to ask any questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrington Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Great job on the CG's. I told you it could be done. Just because RBJ and Palp can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. Glad you found the advise useful. I would have still used a Dremel though, less painful on the fingers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miquel Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Very nice job! Excellent write-up! I am glad you got the watch of your dreams...it is a terrific piece! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Congratulations again, a rare find and a beautiful watch...and of course, another classic write up and how-to by our friend By-Tor! Thank you!!! (my dremmel is spinning now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBombadil Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Awesome By-Tor! This is a great reference to have. I have pinned this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emuozz Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) How it is than I haven't read this review before. That it’s a very nice watch. I’m starting to think that it’s not that insane to pay 400 for it. Very good tutorial for the people with no skills for modding, like me. I have been thinking to buy a vintage Rolex but that crown guards annoys me a lot. Maybe now I just buy one and fix the crown guards myself Edited October 11, 2006 by emuozz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Now all you need to do is make it blue and you have a great watch........ Excellent review as we have all come to expect from you. Fantastic and lovely watch, sorry for thread crapping with the pics lol. Enjoy! Edge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted January 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 How is that "thread crapping"? I love your Tudor. I have already traded this watch too (yeah I'm young and restless). I want to buy a gen like yours eventually. They're not that expensive, really (although the prices have increased lately). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 True they aren't that expensive however it's best to buy them sooner rather than later as the price is going up reasonably quickly as they become more and more desireable. Enjoy! Edge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Beautiful Tudors in this thread! @ Bytor... how high or low is the crown compared to the genuine? For me this seems to be the ever returning question with all rolex reps... but maybe also with the tudor reps. Hopefully not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Beautiful Tudors in this thread! @ Bytor... how high or low is the crown compared to the genuine? For me this seems to be the ever returning question with all rolex reps... but maybe also with the tudor reps. Hopefully not Hi Yellomen, I don't have this watch anymore. It used the 1680 MBW case... so no difference there. I don't remember how it was placed. Perhaps someone else could help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Hi, I'm new here. Could anyone please tell me what is wm and wbw. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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