Another 1665 topic!

[panerai153]

WOW! There sure seems to be a lot of interest in 1665's around the Rolex forum lately. Maybe some of us have just given up on the idea of a nice modern SeaDweller (Read WM9) , don't like the size and "top heaviness" of the DSSD so our attention is turning back to the older models. Or perhaps it's just "plexi craze" after all.

I have been doing a little research on the DRSD, mainly because I recently acquired one and have plans to mod it as much as feasible. One of the things that seems to be a pretty serious "tell" with lots of watches is the date wheel, color, number size, thickness, and actual correctness of the fonts. It seems as most of the 1680 Red Submariners have a silver datewheel with open 6,9 and flat top 3's and W's. The only one of the replica 1680's that has anything approaching the silver ,flat top 3,s and open 6's and W's is the PT 1680. But we're not talking about 1680's at the moment .

While searching "Double Red SeaDweller.com" I came across two variations in numbers. On the early 1665's ,Pat. Pend thru Mk IV, the date wheels have rounded 3's with open 6's and 9's and all the numbers appear to have serifs. On the later MkV's the watch on the website had a date wheel with flat top 3's with the 3's and 5's having and exaggerated top line.

So what I'm asking the experts, what would be the correct datewheel numbers for the 1665? Also how does the stock MBW datewheel stand up as far as correctness? I know that there were silver datewheels with the flat top 3.s and open 6's and 9's produced for a while, as they were sold by ETZ back before they disappeared.Is this datewheel correct for the 1665 or only for the 1680? Also were the datewheels different for the DRSD and the GW? I know that this is really getting into the minutiae of modding, but it's often the small details that make the difference.

[Dizzy]

The standard datewheel as far as i know (on the 15xx cal) was the silver flat top 3 datewheel. During RSC service, the datewheels would be replaced with a newer white open 6 and 9 but round 3 font wheel. As far as collector status goes, the flat top 3 silver wheel is what you want. The PT vintage wheel is the best Ive seen so far on a replica watch even though the silver color is a bit too dark.

dizz

[Ronin]

No real answer. I saw a gen, supposedly non-serviced 2.8mil serial that was silver, round 3's open 6 & 9's. I have seen GW's and Rail's with WHITE (not silver) DWs.

From what I can tell, and based on service history ANY of the following could be correct;

- Silver, Flat 3, Open 6 & 9's

- Silver, Round 3, Open 6 & 9's

- White, Round 3, Open 6 & 9's

[freddy333]

In 1967, when the original 1665 was issued, Rolex was fitting brushed steel datewheels with flat-top 3s & open 6s & 9s. These 'silver' datewheels continued until the end of the 60s (though I understand that some remaining stock continued to get fitted into watches until about 1972 or so). In the early 70s, the brushed steel datewheels were replaced with white painted datewheels, but the fonts remained the same. Then, sometime in the mid-to-late 70s, the flat-top 3 was replaced by rounded 3s & I believe the 6s & 9s closed a few years later.

[ShawnBeever]

I think the PT version has the most gen like open 6/9's with flat 3's. Unfortunately the fiish on the one I had looked nothing like the gen silver brushed finish and I found difficult to see in bad light. Also the PT version does not have the same diameter number ring so will only work with the PT dial. It won't work with an MBW dial and so I guess won't work with any other rep dials.

I have tried most of the date wheels available for the MBW 1665 and have finally gone withe the Cubic works one. Its probably the least gen looking but the quality of printing and the font seam to match the overall package and therefore look most gen, if you know what I mean.

MBW with cubic works

[bwhitesox]

I think the PT version has the most gen like open 6/9's with flat 3's. Unfortunately the fiish on the one I had looked nothing like the gen silver brushed finish and I found difficult to see in bad light. Also the PT version does not have the same diameter number ring so will only work with the PT dial. It won't work with an MBW dial and so I guess won't work with any other rep dials.

It works fine with a MBW dial;

[praetor]

There's silver gen ones for like $140. The thing about PT's datewheel is that it's not 100% correct (from the pics, don't quote me on this). But gen has a radial silver finish (or brushed outside like a circle). So I think it's better to stick with what you have.

Edited November 9, 2010 by praetor

[Ronin]

There's silver gen ones for like $140. < snip >

True, but they rotate the opposite direction of ETA's and 21J's. So unless using a Gen Movement or finding a one off moment you can not use gen DWs for our projects.

[praetor]

Other people have done mods like this before though. For example Sander and Tribal. what they would do is sand the ETA datewheel heavily and partially sand down the gen datewheel. And then use the gen datewheel as an overlay

[Nanuq]

While searching "Double Red SeaDweller.com" I came across two variations in numbers. On the early 1665's ,Pat. Pend thru Mk IV, the date wheels have rounded 3's with open 6's and 9's and all the numbers appear to have serifs. On the later MkV's the watch on the website had a date wheel with flat top 3's with the 3's and 5's having and exaggerated top line.

I found a picture of an all-original MkII from 1971 with a brushed steel datewheel, flat threes and open 6 and 9, if that helps?

[Ronin]

Other people have done mods like this before though. For example Sander and Tribal. what they would do is sand the ETA datewheel heavily and partially sand down the gen datewheel. And then use the gen datewheel as an overlay

You can do it, but it will still run backwards. ETA dates rotate clockwise. Rolex datewheels rotate counter clockwise. So if you don't mind going 3, 2, 1 instead of 1, 2, 3.... its a printing thing.

31

....30

.......29

vs

29

....30

.......31

[praetor]

wow thanks...didn't notice that. I'm still in the planning stages for my DRSD project, doing tons of research. But unfortunately, can't do anything until I get my second part of my student loan in January...and maybe this summer I'll start. As per any vintage watches I would have to start with the dial. I'm planning to custom print my own dial using a manual pad printer ($300) and outsource plate making (laser engraved ones) and outsourcing sterile dial making. Then again, I am in Canada, I could just make stilty do it. Oh well, It's going to be fun either way, but one of the way will leave me with less money =)

[Ronin]

Sounds great. We need someone to pad print datewheels for ETA.

[praetor]

stilty pad prints date wheels like that. But even he can't do the radial brushed finish I think. but dials...they're just matte black and just need to get the date window shape right =)I'm so anal when it comes to the dial lol... even include all rolex's printing irregularities. So it's 99% gen like or nothing =P. How anal you ask? This anal!even includes the wavy lines hahha

[freddy333]

Printing a vintage Rolex datewheel accurately is apparently not an easy task. I had a professional dial refinisher (which uses the original Rolex stampers & supplies refinishing work for Rolex) re-do 1 of my (corroded) gen 1035 datewheels. While the result exceeds the quality of any aftermarket datewheel I have encountered, even pros with oem tools cannot get all the details right. The blue lines illustrate a slight deviation of some dates from their proper position on the wheel, which leaves them too low/high in the date window. You can also see that the small serifs, apparent in the untouched wheel at right (from my albino '42), are missing from the refinished wheel at left

[praetor]

before even designing the dial, I had to research whether or not it's possible to do small serif fonts. And as it turns out, It's possible. The picture below is a replica dial (not refinished) from ingod44 in ebay. I could tell by the shape of the date window; only curved on one side. So if he could do it, why cant I? There's only 3 limitations when it comes to pad printing.

1)The quality of the designs (easily fixable for me)

2)The quality of the plates (laser engraved ones are the best & cheap if outsourced)

3)The ink mixture & pads in pad printing (cheap & lots of experimentation possible

And it's possible to do pad printing with set up costs around $400-550. It'll be like my graduation present =), of course I have to keep it a secret from my parents, whom I lied to about how much I spent on the wm9 v2 this spring >.>

P.S. jmb is working on the decal version of the DRSD dial, he asked me for the file, so it MAY come out first...but he's of ink cardriges haha..

Edited November 10, 2010 by praetor

[JoJo35]

...brushed silver date wheels are service replacements

[highoeyazmuhudee]

Printing a vintage Rolex datewheel accurately is apparently not an easy task. I had a professional dial refinisher (which uses the original Rolex stampers & supplies refinishing work for Rolex) re-do 1 of my (corroded) gen 1035 datewheels. While the result exceeds the quality of any aftermarket datewheel I have encountered, even pros with oem tools cannot get all the details right. The blue lines illustrate a slight deviation of some dates from their proper position on the wheel, which leaves them too low/high in the date window. You can also see that the small serifs, apparent in the untouched wheel at right (from my albino '42), are missing from the refinished wheel at left

what alien technology is Rolex using...!?

[Nanuq]

You can also see that the small serifs, apparent in the untouched wheel at right (from my albino '42), are missing from the refinished wheel at left

Every time I think we've reached a high water mark in the extremes to which we'll take this hobby, a post like this shows up. Simply astounding.

[praetor]

it sucks to be a WIS, ignorance is bliss =(

[freddy333]

Every time I think we've reached a high water mark in the extremes to which we'll take this hobby, a post like this shows up. Simply astounding.

Nanuq - The refinisher is the 1 we discussed to handle your GMT dial awhile back. You have to be very detailed in your request (including good, clear macros of what you want the end result to be) & patient in awaiting the final result (this datewheel had to be re-done 3 times to get to this point), but these guys can produce very good work.

[Dizzy]

Also the PT version does not have the same diameter number ring so will only work with the PT dial. It won't work with an MBW dial and so I guess won't work with any other rep dials.

hhmmm I wonder how many factories these watches are coming out of. I've already seen 3 different clasps on the submariners and some of you guys have datewheel alignment issues and some dont. Mine lined up perfect with gen and MBW dials.

My link - read this