BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 I tried using the search for this but it was too few words? So, here we go... I apologize in advance if this has been discussed at length already! I got myself a 1680 and I need lug holes drilled in the case... Before I have this done, I want to make sure I have the bars for the new sized holes. Where can I find myself some pins? I am smart enough not to try and drill them myself but a friend of mine owns a machine shop with the precision tools to do the work... Do the holes go straight through the case? Basically, should a 2mm hole be drilled all the way through the case? Thaks for the help, I'm still not positive if I'm going to do this for me (or if he even can). He's done drilling and tapping for me on a few rifles for sights and it's absolutely perfect... So don't yell at me for considering it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 I tried using the search for this but it was too few words? So, here we go... I apologize in advance if this has been discussed at length already! I got myself a 1680 and I need lug holes drilled in the case... Before I have this done, I want to make sure I have the bars for the new sized holes. Where can I find myself some pins? I am smart enough not to try and drill them myself but a friend of mine owns a machine shop with the precision tools to do the work... Do the holes go straight through the case? Basically, should a 2mm hole be drilled all the way through the case? Thaks for the help, I'm still not positive if I'm going to do this for me (or if he even can). He's done drilling and tapping for me on a few rifles for sights and it's absolutely perfect... So don't yell at me for considering it! Very good question - I wrote a bunch of posts about this years ago. Unless you have some special skills and equipment, do NOT try this job yourself. Some may disagree, because I think some of these guys may not realize that they are unusually gifted where this sort of work is concerned, but when you break a drill bit (which you shouldn't even think about using) off in a rare MBW case, you'll cry - just ask me how I know. To do this job perfectly, you don't use a drill bit - I posted about this for sure. There's a special tool made for this that looks much like a drill bit but different and I forget what it is called. The holes do go all the way thru the case but it's a real trick to bore that hole and keep the centerline concentric with the axis of the pin. A machinist should have no problem with this, but he isn't likely to give you the final polished perfect finished work you'll get from one of the experts. You most certainly can do that final polishing yourself with a dremel, jewelers rouge and polish, but it isn't as easy as you may think. I did some, and Ziggy did some for me - there is a difference. Remember, unless you're going to strap it, that bracelet must be bored out to accept the pins. Even if you're gifted and equipped to do the case, you may find that job to be beyond you. BE SURE and chamfer the inside holes - that makes a world of difference when you try to assemble them. Your machinist will know what I mean. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Bill, I had this odd feeling you would be one of the first to respond! I had not considered the polishing portion of the work... And having a MBW 1680, I don't kow that I'm crazy about taking a dremmel or anything else to the case! Perhaps I would be better off having someone experienced do it. Second question, where can I get the bars for it? I looked on ebay with no avail, partially because I was not 100% sure what to search! Bill, you don't happen to have a set stashed away in some box, do you!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetor Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 (edited) Ofrei sells spring bars. Sometimes gens pop up on the bay. There's a pinned up tutorial how to drill lug holes in the upgrade section, you should start by reading that. They suggested that you should at least use a drill press. good luck =D As for the bracelet, I would get an aftermarket folded bracelet rather than messing with it. Edited April 9, 2011 by praetor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Ofrei sells spring bars. Sometimes gens pop up on the bay. There's a pinned up tutorial how to drill lug holes in the upgrade section, you should start by reading that. They suggested that you should at least use a drill press. good luck =D As for the bracelet, I would get an aftermarket folded bracelet rather than messing with it. I'll check out the pinned thread, thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Surprise, surprise! It's a Bill thread! Bill, it seems you are the guy to know around here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Surprise, surprise! It's a Bill thread! Bill, it seems you are the guy to know around here! Tis true, I can be fun to know, but keep in mind, as I have said over and over again, I am THE one true expert that nobody can contest or compete with, but only when it comes to what I like. The best example of that lies in the recent threads about the MBW rivet bracelets. I love the darn things but when you hear Freddy explain his point of view, it becomes clear that he is the expert on the bracelets. When you read all he has written on that subject, you will learn a lot - I sure did, but it only served to strengthen my conviction that the MBW version is the version for me. According to Freddy and he obviously knows, the MBW isn't correct, it doesn't have the flimsy piece of crap feel the genuine has, it doesn't have the cheap light weight feel that the genuine does, it has no springs so it doesn't pinch your wrist like the genuine does, and you can adjust the links yourself which you cannot with the gen. I'm not going to pretend that I knew all that, but even when he explains it, I'm sitting here saying, "Yeah?" The difference between us is, of course we would rather have the genuine for the value involved, but I wouldn't have the perfect replica of the genuine if it was given to me, and he pursues it. Also, talk about lume. If there was a truly perfect vintage sub available out there, I'd want it with exceptionally bright lume like we can get from Ziggy, and if it didn't come that way, I'd be sending it to him. If it did come that way, most of our experts would send it to Ziggy to get rid of it for the worn out lume look. To me, that makes no sense whatsoever. If I owned a perfect gen DRSD, I'd wear it, and I'm not wearing a watch worth that kind of money so I can ask the kid next to me in a movie theater to look at his ten dollar Timex and tell me what time it is. I am absolutely right on this point, and nobody on this list or anywhere else with any sense would argue the point -- the "point" being, what works for me. When I sent that pristine gen off to have Ziggy lume it, our resident WIS's might very well dispatch the guys in white coats, but none would suggest that I am not the "last word" expert in what I like. I dwell on this because it's something we should all keep in mind when seeking advice. Quite often, you will get dramatically different advice from people, neither of whom is wrong. It's a question of perspective so make sure that when you ask what's "best," you are asking the same question that they are trying to answer. Bill Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Second question, where can I get the bars for it? I looked on ebay with no avail, partially because I was not 100% sure what to search! Bill, you don't happen to have a set stashed away in some box, do you!? Our esteemed member Vlydog sent me this link once upon a time... "You are looking for 2mm spring bars that will fit a watch 20mm at the lug. If your not able to find gen try these: http://www.ofrei.com/page_155.html" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Our esteemed member Vlydog sent me this link once upon a time... "You are looking for 2mm spring bars that will fit a watch 20mm at the lug. If your not able to find gen try these: http://www.ofrei.com/page_155.html" Ditto. Keep in mind, the only reason Gen crowns are so expensive is there is no legit aftermarket competition. Unlike the tubes (and spring bars) they don't say Rolex, and they don't have the crown stamp, so anyone can make after market replacements without trade mark issues since the patents are long dead. There is no reason to pay stupid money for a gen Rolex part when an after market replacement is as good, or better, and completely indistinguishable from the gen. That's just my opinion. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 BIll, you raise an excellent point about lume... And frankly, I don't know what I'd want at this time. With my DSSD, of course it's obvious: I want it nuclear! As far as the bracelets, I will have to do some reading about them, again, you've peaked my interest! When it comes to those spring bars, what ones do I need? Chances are I missed where it said YOU NEED THESE ONES but I'm a bit unclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 The submariner springbar tube is about 2.0mm but the end plugs (pins) are about 1.2mm (maybe a little over) so you usually need holes in the lugs to be about 1.3mm. If you go only 1.25mm or so, the springbars can bind up in the holes because there is not enough clearance to allow for variations in alignment etc. Go much bigger than 1.4mm and you might remove too much metal from the lugs. A #55 number bit is a good size (about 1.32mm). http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drillchart.htm Holes in lugs that are deeply slanted need the most clearance so the holes must be on the bigger side. I drilled out a case a week ago that had a steep slant toward the bottom of the case and I had to go to about 1.4mm. I tried 'high speed' bits and they dulled out in one hole or less (or break) so I went to cobalt bits. One bit has gone through 8 lugs so far (2 cases) and is still sharp. Something else...lug holes are not chamfered on the outside of genuine cases, they get that way from wear and polishing. If you break a bit off in a lug, you can usually knock it out from the inside (between the lugs) if the hole is all the way through to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Hmm... With that post, I'm thinking having a "pro" do the drilling for my 1680 is worth it. I really don't want to eff this thing up trying to save a few bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Aother one of our members, JMB, is a machinist and has lots of experience drilling lug-holes. You should maybe shoot him a pm for some input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 I use these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Aother one of our members, JMB, is a machinist and has lots of experience drilling lug-holes. You should maybe shoot him a pm for some input. Thanks for the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapman57 Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 There are many sources of 2mm replica gen spec (?) spring bars on the market. Some have flat ends to the pns and some have rounded tips - more gen like. Personally, I have found Yuki (ebay shop and internet shop) bars with rounded ends as goodas any. In my experience the real difference between gen and rep ars is the quality of the spring insid ethe br. Rep bars lose their memory far too quickly and easily - often resulting in the pin 'only pushd out on one side'. Try 'Yukiparts' on ebay or google and see. Approx $5 a pair shipped worldwide. If you are based out of CONUS you pay more for shipping at OFREI, than you do for the parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 When you want to search this forum, don't use the limp search system. Just use Google, and insert site:www.rwgforum.com into the search box along with your search words. That tells Google to only search RWG for your answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Try 'Yukiparts' on ebay or google and see. Approx $5 a pair shipped worldwide. If you are based out of CONUS you pay more for shipping at OFREI, than you do for the parts It's yukiwatch on ebay as well as his website. I looked on ebay and there is nothing for sale and I haven't looked at his website yet. Thanks for the information. When you want to search this forum, don't use the limp search system. Just use Google, and insert site:www.rwgforum.com into the search box along with your search words. That tells Google to only search RWG for your answers. Thanks for the tip. I've found myself fighting the search box quite a bit when looking for answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 a comparison was done with WO bars a few months back and gen they are identical, despite the hatred for mr slimeball i ordered them from him and they seem decent enough, even surviving many reinstalls. as for drilling lug holes its a piece of cake with the proper vise and a drill press. i use 1.25mm carbide bits with a 1/8 shank 1.3mm looks too lare and 1.20 wont allow the pin to poke through if its not perfectly straight, 1.25 seems to allow such clearance while remaining true to the original pin hole. for the bracelet and end links i use a pin vise and a 5/64 bit working the bit through the existing hole by hand via the pin vise, never had a problem with this method, the hardest part for me is re polishing the lugs back to factory shine, its more of an art. one thing ive noticed on gens vs our reps is that the springbars poke out of the holes like a little button, im assuming this is from polishing over and over again wearing down the case? the setup takes the longest time, dont rush that part, use 3in1 oil slowly work through the case, take your time, expect to break a bit every 3-5 holes the end result is worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 I posted a couple of threads detailing the differences between gen 7206 rivet bracelets & the typical MBW-style rep rivet bracelets which you can search out. (The 7206 fits 20mm width lugs on many vintage Rolex sports watches like Subs.) But, if credibility is your goal, I think these pictures tell the whole story. With the exception of the polished finish on the underside of the gen links, Yuki's rivet 7206 bracelets look almost exactly like the gen in these pictures (check with Yuki if you have questions about his other bracelets) Again, be aware that, at least the last time I received a 7206 from Yuki, these 7206 bracelets did not accept 2mm dia springbars. So, unless your bracelet comes with 2mm springbars already in it (Yuki was fitting them himself for a while, but I do not know if he still does this - check with Yuki), you may have trouble fitting them (I gave up trying). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjjoyce1 Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Again, be aware that, at least the last time I received a 7206 from Yuki, these 7206 bracelets did not accept 2mm dia springbars. So, unless your bracelet comes with 2mm springbars already in it (Yuki was fitting them himself for a while, but I do not know if he still does this - check with Yuki), you may have trouble fitting them (I gave up trying). I can definitively answer Nope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Here is my 5512 right after lug holes were drilled and chamfered, gen crown and tube installed. Work done by Jmb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Looks awesome. I got a hold of JMB and I he's going to do mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Looks awesome. I got a hold of JMB and I he's going to do mine! You will not be disappointed Be sure to send him some 2mm springbars and the bracelet you want to wear so it can be modded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGGodwin Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 He said he has them stocked so I don't need to worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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