calatrava Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Alex Lee at Perpetual Watch is highly regarded on the chinese mechanical forum at Watchuseek, and makes some wonderfully crafted watches which use various chinese tourbillon movements. If you're looking for a good quality and reliable non-replica tourbillon, he has my recommendation. http://www.perpetual-watch.com/ In any case, he has done a comparison study of the various tourbillon movements which are available, and I wanted to share this with the other forum members. What follows is due to Alex: I am a Blancpain fan right from the beginning, my collection wouldn't be possible without its influence. Blancpain created the Carrousel-Tourbillon in the late 90's and I have loved it ever since. I was always curious why 9 out of 10 (10 out of 10 most of the time) of watch lovers would prefer the Breguet's coaxial Tourbillon over the Carrousel-Tourbillon. Blancpain adapted its Tourbillon from the original carrousel construction for its more visible display of the escapement instead of being underneath the balance wheel as in Breguet type. The Carrousel-Tourbillon also can achieve with a thinner movement thickness because the escapement is in line with the balance wheel. When I finally made my own Tourbillon collection, my first Tourbillon had to be the Carrousel-Tourbillon employing the TianJin’s ST8000 caliber. Then later I introduced the automatic Tourbillon DG8101 into my collection, something happened to me almost seemingly without a trace, I was miraculously getting attracted by the coaxial Tourbillon, the more I looked at it, the more I was captured by it. Since the Carrousel-Tourbillon’s balance wheel is smaller than the one used in coaxial type, the coaxial Tourbillon’s bigger balance wheel in fact is much more impressive to be looked at. In addition, the flying Tourbillon is relatively more vulnerable to be damaged by accidental impacts while the coaxial type is very solid being mounted on the same main pinion. Try log onto my website and go to the VIDEO webpage, do yourself a favor, watch both ST8000 & DG8101 & the recent added SH F-8’s videos at least 3-5 times, you might experience what I had experienced and might join the others as a Breguet's coaxial type Tourbillon fan too. The anatomy on all Chinese Tourbillons HangZhou HZ (PTS) Tourbillon FD3091 series, the carriage is not very attractive, like a pigeon, and their new FD3900 is coaxial, manual winding and off-center hands display, the beating rate of 28’800 bph, not 21’600 bph. I do have a problem with the day/night display, very ridiculous for any Tourbillon I must say. HZ FD3091 HZ FD3900 ShangHai SH Tourbillon, I like its display of seconds hand on top of the carriage, its hands are center-axis & manual winding. One of the most expensive Tourbillons since every makers had a drastic 60% reduction 2 years ago but not Shanghai. The movement back is not very impressive, too simple. The SH had already successfully made an Orbital Tourbillon and the Double Tourbillon, the Triple Tourbillon is on its way. My latest automatic Tourbillon AT series featuring the newest SH F-8 movement, by far the best Chinese Tourbillon in terms of the Tourbillon type, beating rate, with power reserve & day-date features added, and most of all, the SH F-8 ‘s price is now more approachable than its manual predecessor. LiaoNing LN Tourbillon as shown in the BHI ‘s pic, The first generation Chinese Tourbillon, has been flooding the market ever since. Personally I think it's the worst. The carriage looks like a freak, it is manual winding, center-axis hands display and very inexpensive, the BHI (British Horological Institute) Tourbillon is selling it at less than 400 pounds on the web. BeiJing BJ Tourbillon, the carriage looks real odd as well as the back, it is center-axis hands display and manual winding, the price is as expensive as the SH since both had avoided the Tourbillon movement’s price war which led to a massive price cuts. Many experts view the BJ & SH are much better than the others, I suspect mostly because of their high prices, but I personally think they are not that far better than the rest. The BJ has proven its supremacy achieving making the first Chinese Minute Repeater Tourbillon and most recently the bi-axial 3D Tourbillon as well. TianJin ST Tourbillon series is certainly one of the best, also the price is very attractive, but not their branded watches seagull , way over-priced I must say. The ST8000 is very reliable according to my over 3 years’ personal experience, both by using & wearing it. The movement back is the most impressive one among all the others. Although the new automatic ST8000 is available, ST8002ZG is in fact ST8000 with an additional rotor for self-winding, now seagull is only selling this caliber with the 18-carat gold models only, the stainless steel model won't be available any time soon. On the other hand, the ST8000 offers an attractive price, although off-center hands display, but with my improper-proportioned hands, you might not notice it at all. The advantage of manual winding is, no obstruction to view the carriage from the back, automatic rotor will always get in the way at 6 o'clock position, in fact, all major prestigious Swiss Tourbillons are manual winding. An update on seagull, they have now included a coaxial Tourbillon in their collection, again available in precious metal models only. Recently I have introduced another seagull Tourbillon caliber ST8001 with added Power Reserve & Date, the movement costs 2/3 more than ST8000. Personally I would prefer ST8000, again for the same reason, the Tourbillon carriage is the major attraction and should be left alone. GuangDong DG Tourbillon, it was previously employed in my automatic Tourbillon series, the first ever Chinese made automatic Tourbillon, currently the only automatic coaxial Chinese Tourbillon has registered a patent in Switzerland. The DG8101 is a typical Breguet coaxial type and is often called center Tourbillon. 8 out of 10 watch lovers will prefer it over the Carrousel-Tourbillon. You are likely to find a similar DG8101 Tourbillon movement by other brands with added day-date displays (DG8000). Since DG8101 is off-center hands display, with added day-date subdials on top, from an aesthetic point of view, I find it very awkward, the Tourbillon’s carriage is the ultimate major attraction and should be left alone. We had stopped employed this caliber from our collection ever since the ShangHai F-8 AT Tourbillons were introduced in earlier 2010. Edited July 1, 2011 by calatrava 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoever Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 A very interesting view thanks for posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Great post, very informative, thanks for taking the time to share! I have always wanted the auto version, but they seem quite a bit more expensive! This is a very nice watch, but crazy ebay overpricing! http://cgi.ebay.com/SS-pvd-carbonFibre-dial-Real-centre-Auto-tourbillon-/380309726405?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item588c39e4c5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calatrava Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Great post, very informative, thanks for taking the time! I have always wanted the auto version, but they seem quite a bit more expensive! This is a very nice watch, but crazy ebay overpricing! http://cgi.ebay.com/SS-pvd-carbonFibre-dial-Real-centre-Auto-tourbillon-/380309726405?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item588c39e4c5 That is a bit overpriced. Perpetual watches used to carry an automatic tourbillon, and I think it was approximately $1000, and they are said to have impeccable finishing and service. For a limited time Seagull USA has the 818.360 Tourbillon for $2600. Contact them directly if you're interested, since the pricing is limited to stock on hand. This seems to use a newer Seagull carrousel-tourbillon movement. Edited July 1, 2011 by calatrava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Nice watch, although if I were to purchase a tourby, it would have to have a modern look, not into classic looking time pieces really ( stone him! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Great write-up. It has been many years since I owned a tourby and the ones I owned were horrible from a service perspective - 9 months or more and mucho dinero. I might just get up the courage to buy one of these and see how they hold up. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calatrava Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Great write-up. It has been many years since I owned a tourby and the ones I owned were horrible from a service perspective - 9 months or more and mucho dinero. I might just get up the courage to buy one of these and see how they hold up. Thanks again. The writeup was sent to me from Alex Lee at Perpetual watch, but I figured it would be good to share it. Hopefully my new JLC Master Tourbillon, which is based on the PTS (Hangzhou) movement is more robust than the first batch of chinese tourbillons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calatrava Posted July 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 For a limited time Seagull USA has the 818.360 Tourbillon for $2600. Contact them directly if you're interested, since the pricing is limited to stock on hand. This seems to use a newer Seagull carrousel-tourbillon movement. Sorry, I meant coaxial-tourbillon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 This is a fantastic post. I have a millionsmart based tourby originally sold by a UK dealer named homer. Who used to do reps but doesn't anymore. I'm pretty sure as of this post you can still get his on eBay. I have had it for several years now and it works great. I would really love to AR the crystal but I'm nervous about anyone taking it out of the case. My first one I put in checked luggage and when I got to my hotel, the watch was totally dead. Luckily, the millionsmart based watches have a 2. Yr warranty. So I got it swapped out. This ones been great especially on my HKTAN strap. Best part about homer's version is, it's not branded. Bad part, the watch is small by today's standards, but, the tourby is so cool, it's worth it. I wou,d like to get a center wind/ co-axial model one day and I would [censored] my pants if I could get one of those double tourbys Incidentally I have noticed he has a pvd version. - on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 bought a sterile PAM063 from Homer. Can't remember his eBay name though. Top notch seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Great post, very informative, thanks for taking the time to share! I have always wanted the auto version, but they seem quite a bit more expensive! This is a very nice watch, but crazy ebay overpricing! http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item588c39e4c5 The author did say that the automatics were 2/3 more! And he did not recommend autos. He also stated all the very expensive ones are manual! So the $2500 price may not be out of line if this is the top of the line movement. I think answer is to follow the author who seams to be genius, and stay with hand wind. Just my 2 cts which is worth nothing.. MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 The sea gull manual wind is like 3 k. Supposedly the dual tourby is 10-12,000 No one should pay anything more than 1k for a center wind. And that is up a few hundred in the last 3 yrs, I think all prices are up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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