Rolexperts please ~~ advice needed on my 2 Daytona's ~~ comparison shoots !

[Valty]

Hello RWG

This is not usual, but I need your precious knowledge this time !

Some of you are probably knowing I have bought 2 V72 Daytona's these days - a 6263, and a 6265... Both have been supposed to be DW's based.

But... After some careful checking, my 6263 seem's to not be not so much DW.

In my opinion, there is a lot of differences on the 6263 :

- No engravements at all on the case (!)

- Shape of the case is different

- Slightly bigger springbars holes

- The caseback, and the back of the watch, are really different

- Pushers are not the same

- The Gen crown... not the same. Seems to not be a 703.

And probably more things I have not seen !

-----

Here are the comparison shoots.

-> The 6263 will ALWAYS be on the left, or on the top of the photos

-> The 6265 will ALWAYS be on the right, or on the bottom of the photos

-----

If you guys have any idea of the source of the different parts, it will be awesome

Also, if you have any argued preferences between the both, I'm really really open to hear it

I don't really know witch case / crown / caseback / pushers / etc are the closer to the "real" deal !

Anyways, thanks in advance !

R.

[jmb]

The only data point I can offer is that the cases are available with and without engraving between the lugs. I have a non-engraved version...

[Valty]

The only data point I can offer is that the cases are available with and without engraving between the lugs. I have a non-engraved version...

I was not knowing that DW offers this possibility.

Is it possible DW sold two versions of cases for the others points ?

Anyways, thanks for the information !

[ubiquitous]

Looks like you have one crown that's a 703 and one that's a 704 (basically a monobloc Triplock crown).

703 crown:

704/monobloc:

Lug holes should be for the smaller size pivots:

Gen springbars look like this:

Your 6265's pushers look like DW's, in my opinion.

[Valty]

Thanks Ubi for your advice

The mystery is lifted for the crown

Do you know witch crown is better for the 6263/5 ? 703 or 704 ?

About the 6265, I'm sure it's 100% DW. No clue about that.

But about the 6263, I'm not really sure... Especially for the case & the pushers.

It seems that the case is of a different design.

And the pushers looks so much better on the 6263 in my opinion...

[ubiquitous]

For a 6263/5... A 703 is better (that's what I have on my 6265)...

But 702 is even better...

[Valty]

Thanks Ubi

Now, I have to discover the origin of the case

[ubiquitous]

DW has had a couple of designs for his cases. I quit trying to keep track...

[Valty]

In case the 6263 is a previous version of a DW case, witch crown guards case lugs seems better to you ?

I feel they are modded on the 6263...

[ubiquitous]

In case the 6263 is a previous version of a DW case, witch crown-guards seems better to you ?

I feel they are modded on the 6263...

Ehhhh... Crown guards?

[jmb]

Hopefully LHOOQ will chime in as I consider him "all supreme" as far as DW knowledge goes.

[Valty]

Oops, stupid me.

I think'd about some other things while "translating" into my head.

I was talking about the shape of the case lugs... Obviously not the CG's...

EDIT: sometimes, I really hate to be French

[lhooq]

Some caveats: I've only been at the DW Daytona thing since late 2009 so I missed out on DW's earliest output. Also, I'm currently at the office and away from my pretties. I might have more to say when I get home and take a look. Anyhow, here are my early impressions:

I think there are three generations of DW Daytona cases. The first generation is what we see in classic 6263 builds from 2005-2008 like avitt's, vlaletom's, freddy's, and even ubi's early ones. These had thicker lugs and a generally good level of finish, by DW standards. I believe your 6263 is a 2nd-gen case, which had thinner and more slender lugs. Build quality was inferior--sharp edges and loose tolerances, particularly inside the case.

Generation 3 began when DW introduced the 6239. I believe your 6265 is from the new generation. Overall finish is at a much higher standard, and the blunter shape of the lugs is a better match for earlier Daytonas. Personally, I think the slender, pointier lugs of the earlier DWs are better suited to 1980s-era 6263s and 6265s. Unfortunately ,the new DW case also introduced "the tumah" which is the exaggerated bump underneath the crown. (Yes, I know the later 6239/6241s and the 6263/6265s protruded a bit on the right side, but not to the extent of DW's case. I've placed my DW 6263 right next to a gen from '85, so trust me on this!) Finally, I think that all of DW's Daytonas have slightly thicker mid-cases than the gen, and pusher placement that is very slightly higher than on the gen.

Final caveats: There is a huge amount of variation among genuine Daytonas, even in the few that I've had the privilege of handling. The mid-cases evolved continuously throughout the model's nearly 30-year lifespan.

Ultimate disclaimer: All of the above may be completely wrong!

[Omega]

Both are DW - one old and other new stock. On old case pusher are not screwed (you have to open the caseback and look at the end of the pushers), but maybe replaced with aftermarket ones. Both crowns are 703 - left new style coronet (gasket on tube is missing!), right is old style 703 coronet. Lugholes are on left drilled, both DW cases had always correct dimensions so someone did it himself.

EDIT:

It can also be that the case is polished sometimes, and the lugholes seem only to be bigger. There is needed a special tool for polishing in the lughole area, and not to get around the hole a crater. That's why often the holes look bigger on pictures as they are.

BUT, a 40 year old watch would look like that only by wearing...so don't care

Edited July 20, 2011 by Omega

[Valty]

Thanks guys for your time & for having enlightened me

I understand more what I have in my hands right now !

R.

[lhooq]

I said I'd have some more later, so here are some pictures.

DW 6239/7750 (3rd generation)

DW 6263/7750 (2nd generation)

DW 6263/V72 (avitt c.2006: 1st generation?)

Note the following on the first-gen 6263:

-relative thinness of the case side

-the indent/counterbore beneath the crown

-the thickness and shape of the lugs compared to your first photo

Hmm... After seeing the crooked contour of the 6239's mid-case, I'm starting to wonder whether the level of finish isn't as good as I thought it was.

[ubiquitous]

One more 1st generation case... Mrs. Ubi's (though it is a V23 case):

[wat44]

Ubi, a noob vintage daytona question - what is that bottom right one in your sig?

[Ephry73]

One more 1st generation case... Mrs. Ubi's (though it is a V23 case):

I received a 6263 that I may keep, but I need to know if the pushers are easily sourced and how to remove them. Also, is there a case back gasket for these watches? I love the black dial with silver sub dials. Looks sick. I believe this one has Venus 23 movement and it's rock solid. Unfortunately(or fortunately for me) the PO tried to "improve" upon the pushers, thus making them unusable. I tried the functions by pressing down with a toothpick and everything works as it should, including all three of the sub dials. Pics later. I have a riveted bracelet (thanks Nanuq) in the works for it, but may go with the more classic Paul Newman leather cuff.

Hate to hyjack the post, but need information.

Loving these Daytonas.

E

[lhooq]

I received a 6263 that I may keep, but I need to know if the pushers are easily sourced and how to remove them.

Could you let us know if your Daytona is from DW, the cartel, or someone else? Suitable aftermarket screw-down pushers are not hard to find, but they can be difficult to fit depending on which case you have.

[Ephry73]

Could you let us know if your Daytona is from DW, the cartel, or someone else? Suitable aftermarket screw-down pushers are not hard to find, but they can be difficult to fit depending on which case you have.

I bought it second hand as a basket case. Only thing basket about it was the pusher issue. I cannot tell you for sure. Is there a reference for this number?7320648 between the lugs at 6 o'clock?

There is no case back gasket and everything else seems standard from what I have seen. I'm not an expert at all.

E

[lhooq]

It's probably best that I wait until I see a picture. Regardless, you could buy screw-down pushers from Ofrei ("Daytona white screw down push button"), CousinsUK, or Clark Watch Parts. I don't have any first-hand experience with any of these, but both Ofrei and Cousins units have been highly recommended here. I don't know anyone who has tried Clark's, but they look good in the pictures.

Whichever Daytona you have, the best-case scenario is that the pushers will thread in with no problem. At worst, you'll need to drill out the pusher threads and glue the new pushers in place. This is very likely on a DW case, which has threads that are the correct diameter but have the wrong pitch.

[Ephry73]

Thanks Lhooq. If anyone is an authority here regarding these watches it is you. Here's my original post with pictures. My Daytona 6263

I will take a look at the Ofrei stuff. Clark's on fleabay looked good as well and the prices are very, very decent.

E

[lhooq]

Thanks Lhooq. If anyone is an authority here regarding these watches it is you.

In RWG-Rolex? I'm a noob compared to a lot of the guys!

Case in point: I really don't know where your 6263 came from. The bezel insert and overall shape suggest it's not a DW, while the skinny hands in the subdials mean it's not from the cartel. Of course, there've been vintage Daytona reps sold by more than just DW and the cartel, but I'm stumped. Are the pushers spaced at different distances from the crown?

[Ephry73]

In RWG-Rolex? I'm a noob compared to a lot of the guys!

Then not an expert, but definitely more expertise and knowledge than I.

Case in point: I really don't know where your 6263 came from. The bezel insert and overall shape suggest it's not a DW, while the skinny hands in the subdials mean it's not from the cartel. Of course, there've been vintage Daytona reps sold by more than just DW and the cartel, but I'm stumped. Are the pushers spaced at different distances from the crown?

The reset bottom pusher is closer to the crown than the start/stop pusher. overall I am quite pleased with it.

E