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chiman12

Modding the cartel vintage Daytona's for proper sub-dial spacing.

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The InGod dial that C used is sized for a V72, so the answer is definitely yes!

I think this is the most exciting aspect to this project, regardless of whether DW's mid-case is a better replication. I've got a nice V72-spec dial that I've been wanting to use, and this is a much cheaper solution than a V23 (or another V72!), and I'd rather not buy one of the last remaining Mystery Movements.

Most definitely. It will allow for a build with just the sourcing of a gen like dial and a bit of patience.

E

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Does anyone have a used dial for sale? I am not worried about the accuracy at this point. I managed to win one of those asian 7750 movements on fleaBay and I need to get dials and hands to go in one of the cases I got from Chiman. Just to test out. BTW, the movement I got seems to have the three working subdials.

E

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Does anyone have a used dial for sale? I am not worried about the accuracy at this point. I managed to win one of those asian 7750 movements on fleaBay and I need to get dials and hands to go in one of the cases I got from Chiman. Just to test out. BTW, the movement I got seems to have the three working subdials.

E

if it's a normal a7750, why shouldn't it have three working subdials?

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Kept reading about different suppliers freezing the 6 o'clock or locking it.

What dials are compatible with the Lemania/a7750 copy?

E

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E, I think you've confused two different movements:

There's the Asian 7750, a de-rotored automatic with three working subdials, wide spacing, and used by DW (as well as the cartel in the past).

Then there's the Sea-Gull ST-19 aka 'Venus' aka 'Lemania', which is the manual-wind movement you see in the OP.

Dials are not interchangeable between the two.

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Gotcha. The one I recently sourced is listed as the lemania clone, but the subdials are all functional. I guess that's where my confusion lays in.

E

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Hey Guys,

 

I just saw this old thread and now i´m on fire. But i´m still an noob, so I would be very thankful on any thoughts and tips.

Since the moment i found out about the hole rep-thing, I was looking for a Vintage Daytona. But it´s hart, any V72 solution is very expansiv, DW seems to be out of the game, so leaves the "normal" Cartel rep, as seen on many TD sites.

 

So know i´ve seen this solution. This would work great for me, because I would pass on the chromo function if the look of the watch works great.

My question is, is the normal Daytona 6263 good enough as a reap? Or are the flaws besides the not fully working chrono and the sundial space that big that there are obvious tells?

 

Thanks for any help!

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On 8/7/2011 at 7:36 PM, chiman12 said:

I took some time off on a couple of projects (sorry Flex!) and focused on the cartel 6263 that has been recently released with the the asymmetrical pusher configuration, but has crappy sub-dials.

 

I bought the white PN dial. Besides the big crappy sub-dials, the rest of the dial isn't actually too bad. But the killer is the sub-dials. They are a larger than gen and the hour sub-dial even bleeds into the outside track of the dial. Definitely 2 thumbs down!

P1014494.jpg

 

When you turn over the watch, you will notice that one of the pusher notches doesn't seem to be cut as deep as the other...

P1014495.jpg

There is a reason for this, which I will explain later.

 

Opening the case...a shot of inside the case back. Once again not too bad, engravings are deep, fonts are pronouced...

P1014496.jpg

 

Shot of the famous Seagull movement that was used in this rep.

P1014497.jpg

 

But waitaminute...the Seagull has symmetrical pusher configuration, so how can the new cartel vintage Daytona's have asymmetrical pushers?

 

Here is the cartel's answer to the symmetrical/asymmetrical problem...

P1014498.jpg

For the top pusher, the cartel fashioned a little "L" shaped arm that attaches to the pusher. This "L" shaped arm actually compensates for the difference in distance between a symmetrical and asymmetrical pusher position. The offset is a good 6 to 8mm. This also explains why one of the pusher notches is not as deep as the other one. The cartel had to machine a groove in the case to fit the "L" shaped arm and as a result, the corresponding pusher need to be shortened. Though not noticable at first or even second glance, the top pusher is a bit shorter than the bottom pusher.

 

I give the cartel this credit...very ingenious, but when the watch is flipped over, the notch is a sure tell. Otherwise, when the watch sits on your wrist, the notch is not noticable at all.

 

In my exploration, I also discovered that the seagull can never have the proper sub dial spacing for a Daytona. I bought an InGod44 PN dial just for the purpose of modding the cartel to give it the same sub-dial spacing as a gen Daytona. I discovered this...

P1014504.jpg

InGod dial on top and the cartel dial on the bottom. Notice how the cartel hour sub-dial post hole is slightly lower than the InGod? Yup...a gen-spec dial is not a direct swap.

 

BUT...I wasn't going to give up, so I proceeded to tear apart the Daytona and I discovered the following.

 

As you may well know, the hour totalizer (sub-dial) is static for the Seagull movement...in other words, it is not functional. Here is the little gear responsible for holding the hour totalizer hand in place.

P1014541.jpg

The hour gear needs to be moved slightly upwards, but the gear is set into place by a pivot and a pivot hole machined into the top plate of the movement.

P1014543.jpg

I had to either move the position of the pivot hole or remove the pivot. I decided that to remove the pivot would be the easiest way. So I proceeded to file down the pivot, until it was gone and the gear sat flat on the surface of the movement plate.

 

I then took the cover plate...Notice that the plate keeps the hour gear in a specific spot.

P1014542.jpg

So I enlarged the hour gear hole by using one of my trusty broaches. But the gear had to stay in its new position, so I used some cold weld adhesive to affix the gear into the proper place on the movement plate. I used slow set cold weld adhesive as this would provide some extra time to move the hour gear into the proper position. I quickly reinstalled the cover plate and placed the InGod dial onto the movement. I then aligned the post to the new dial.

 

Here is the end result...

P1014544.jpg

 

After the adhesive has dried, I used dial dot tape to install the InGod dial. Notice that the hour post is in the middle...

P1014545.jpg

 

The hands go back on...

P1014546.jpg

 

...and the final product...the subdial issue for the vintage cartel Daytona...solved!!!

P1014547-1.jpg

 

Okay...back to Flex's projects...

Thank you for posting this! any chance you can re upload these photos?

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@lelloarena The OP @chiman12 is still around, so if he still has the pictures maybe he could load them straight to the forum. Unfortunately a lot of forums lost pictures in threads when Photobucket changed it’s policies and not everybody had backups of their pictures elsewhere.

 

Try looking at some of @rolojack‘s vintage Daytona builds as well.

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For those that don't know, there is an extension for Chrome that will show all Photobucket pictures. Search for "Photobucket Hotlink Fix".

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3 hours ago, tomhorn said:

For those that don't know, there is an extension for Chrome that will show all Photobucket pictures. Search for "Photobucket Hotlink Fix".

Thank you so much! It work!

 

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Sorry everyone!  I'm not sure how to fix the links to my old pics without paying $399 a year!

 

It's good to see that an old post is still put to good use!

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7 hours ago, chiman12 said:

Sorry everyone!  I'm not sure how to fix the links to my old pics without paying $399 a year!

 

It's good to see that an old post is still put to good use!

Just click this and upload directly to the forum. 

EEB29272-E7BB-40E0-9E50-2890A3717B63.jpeg

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