marlin22 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have compiled this set of side by side pictures to try to explain to the membership all the differences there are between the two and hopefully finally make clear some confusion, and show the membership how easy it is to mislead buyers on parts that cannot be seen. This may take some time and many edits and picture uploads, so be patient please. Now lest get some things clear, first on ETA, I could rant on about how ETA is the largest Swiss movement maker in the world and blah blah blah, but it is easier if you read for yourself here ( http://www.eta.ch/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA ). Now that you have read a little about ETA (I hope) we can proceed. Here are some other links on the specific movement we are talking about in this thread which is the 6497 (http://www.monochrom...panerai-cimier/ and http://www.watches-w...?title=ETA_6497 ) Now you should understand that in this case Panerai does not make this movement and the fact that the 6497 has been around for over 60 years. Let me make it very clear ETA MAKES THE GUTS OF THIS MOVEMENT AND PANERAI MAKES ALL THE PRETTY STUFF THAT ADORNS IT OR DRESSES IT UP, PANERAI DOES NOT MAKE THE PARTS THAT GO INTO THIS MOVEMENT sorry about the caps but it seems many just don’t get it. Panerai OEM is ETA OEM because only ETA is licensed to produce those parts, it is all proprietary To ETA. http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/6497/6497assem.swf The 6497 has several variants and two beat rates 6497-1 = 18000vph (low beat) sec. @ 9:00 6497-2 = 21600vph (high beat) sec. @ 9:00 (Gen. Panerai use this movement in their watches, practically impossible to get and very expensive when found) 6498-1 = 18000vph sec. @ 6:00 6498-2 = 21600vph sec. @ 6:00 Most of the parts you will see here will never be seen on the watch itself because they are buried deep within the watches guts. So let’s start with the main plate, this can be considered the chassis of the watch just like on a car. Here you can see three one is REP the middle is stock ETA and right is modded to look gen. but is still a stock ETA. Most important thing to look for when a watch is advertised as Swiss is the stamp markings under the balance wheel. Only true Swiss movements have this and it is stamped not etched, the REP has no markings at all. On the 6497 there are some numbers on it but the most important thig to look for is the ETA crest stamp. I have not finished my write up, but I want to make one thing very clear. Though the parts may look very much alike, the difference is enormous in the quality of the parts. The ETA parts are a great deal superior to the Chinese counterparts. The ETA parts are made of superior metals and seem to be stronger and heftier. One obvious example is the bridge screws I have sheared off several Chinese screws with out putting any torque on them as opposed to the ETA, they are hardened and I have yet to shear one off. So please don't be fooled as too how similar they are, the main difference is in the quality and longevity of the ETA parts. Back: Front: Now let’s look at the components that go on the front of the base plate and under the dial. This consists of the list of parts pictured below, most of these parts are never seen. Slide pinion: Virtually identical Winding pinion: Also identical Setting lever: Only difference is finish Yoke: Identical Yoke spring: Identical, the ETA might be a little shiner Setting wheel and Intermediate setting wheel: Only differences is finish, ETA is smoother and shinier Minute wheel: Only difference is finish Set lever jumper: Identical, I added a modded one to show how Panerai brushes theirs, beyond that they are the same Set lever jumper retaining screw: Color is different and Rep is slightly domed on the top and ETA is flat Cannon pinion: ETA has a smother finish and brighter shine Hour wheel: Rep is shinier, however Panerai uses a brass wheel see second picture More to come, need to take more pictures to post below Now lets flip the movement and see what parts are in the back side. These parts are more important because here is where all the main mechanical parts of the watch reside. And in the case of some Panerai watches these parts are completely visible to anyone who looks at the back of the watch, and where the largest amount of "tells" are. Escape wheel Third wheel: The third wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Second wheel (they come with long lower pivot for second hand or short pivot for no second hand configurations): The third wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP.. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Center wheel:The center wheel on the ETA 6497-2 is brushed but not on the 6497-1, on the REP. they are too shiny, I mod them to look more gen. Lighting is different on the picture but they are all a light gold tone Bridge screws(bolts):The ETA is a thicker screw and has a small grip, while the REP has no grip at all. The color is different as well Barrel: Setting lever screw Crown wheel ring Crown wheel Crown wheel screw Click spring Click Click screw Ratchet Wheel Ratchet wheel screw Pallet fork: Pallet bridge: Pallet bridge screws: Balance: Panerai movement which is the ETA 6497-2 use the Glucydur balance that is made and licensed by ETA, the 6497-1 however does not. Glucydur and the balance wheel One of the trademark features of ETA movements is their Glucydur balance wheels, which look like this: Incabloc shock system: Not made by ETA but by Incabloc S.A. and used on ETA movements I hope this helps members understand the differences between the REP parts and the OEM ETA parts. Most of the parts are identical and function the same. I use the ETA parts on my builds because in some cases the ETA parts are built heftier and are obviously made with quality materials. Thanks for looking........ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Determine Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Nice info! Thanks for posting this! D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectologist Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Incabloc shock system: Not made by ETA but by Incabloc S.A. and used on ETA movements Good stuff... looking forward to more! Yep, ETA doesn't manufacture the Incabloc anti-shock system, but they do own the company that makes it (which also makes the Novodiac protection system). ETA makes their own version anti-shock system called Etachoc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin22 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Correct, as always you know your stuff!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarface Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Wow the parts are scaringly close to each other , one can never really know the difference until having handled or modded the parts himself Very nice comparison sticky is must for this thread Sent from my Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Close but under scrutiny there is noooooooooooo comparison with eta finishing None Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Great stuff. And just to reiterate, although parts can look very similar, as T says, there is a world of difference between an ETA and rep movement (never mind a high finish 6497-2 vs gen Panerai). I have always wondered if Panerai uses a different mainspring. Even the blued finish on the screws for the Panerai movement are very different from the ETA high beats I have owned. I once had Ziggy service an ETA 7753 at the same time he was doing a gen daylight and as I recall the differences were fairly material. T is the man though as I don't have the skills or courage to disassemble my gen movements. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgingras Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Thanks for putting that together. Very interresting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Holy cow, a lot of work in that post, great comparisons and invaluable material for everyone. Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together, a huge job. Well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Absolutely fantastic thread.... A sticky me thinks ..... very informative... Thanks for taking what was a great deal of time to put this together and post it mate.... PS... Surely when you say ETA you actually mean OEM.....??? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin22 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 PS... Surely when you say ETA you actually mean OEM.....??? ;) No when I say OEM I mean ETA, remember when it comes to this movement and in some cases the 7750 or 7753, only ETA makes the OEM internal parts not Panerai. So, the Original Equipment Manufacturer is ETA. I am still taking pictures and will make more precise my assesments of the parts with better camparison quotes, in hopes that the membership get a better grip on this issue, it might take a little while before I am done, but when I am complete the thread will be much more specific on the differences. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Great read and photos, love these sort of comparison teardowns, thanks for taking the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I guess the humour doesnt cross over mate.... I thought the smileys might have helped.... guess not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Another case of buy the seller, not the watch. Great writeup and pictorial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 So I guess the appropriate adage for gen watches using ETA is start with an ebauche and go from there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin22 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sorry PeteM, missed it, I am just being overwhelmed with all this OEM confusion that has got everyone going all over the place and the last thing I want to do is contribute to the confusion, I hope you understand. Most of the worlds largest watch co. have or still use ETA in their watches. Panerai is by far not the only watch company to use them. Omega uses the 6497 in their Railmaster XXL ( http://www.omegarolex.com/details/02201.html ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Very nice comparison pictures. Thanks for putting it all together. However I would caution anyone using visual confirmation to determine parts compatability. As mentioned above while parts may appear to be the same they often are not when you attempt to fit them up. I ran into this when replacing the center wheel on a clone 6497-2. Ordered and ETA part and it would not fit, the pinion was too large for the jewel. Even measured with my calipers and they came out the same but for whatever reason it was a no go. I ended up polishing the pinion and was able to get it to fit. So as mentioned the details and finish can make all the difference in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sorry PeteM, missed it, I am just being overwhelmed with all this OEM confusion that has got everyone going all over the place and the last thing I want to do is contribute to the confusion, I hope you understand. Most of the worlds largest watch co. have or still use ETA in their watches. Panerai is by far not the only watch company to use them. Omega uses the 6497 in their Railmaster XXL ( http://www.omegarole...ails/02201.html ) TBH mate... I thought that as I wrote... I know how much grief this 'situation' caused you and I understand how it could go over your head.... I didnt mean anything by it mate... I just hope a lot of guys take in this thread and hopefully learn to understand the difference between facts and marketing (sales) patter... and more importantly why it is important to get your rep serviced regardless of the model.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaghost Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Very interesting to read, thanks for posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Wonderful effort & thank you for taking the time to put this up. Very Informative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakwan Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Thanks for this great review and comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folex Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 I was wondering if we could actually polish the caseback itself to make it more shiny like the gen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markiemark Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 I was wondering if we could actually polish the caseback itself to make it more shiny like the gen? Impossible is nothing ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 Marlin is a master of his craft and a pleasure to work with. Thank you very much for the enlightenment, I learned a lot from your postings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmail21 Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Great read. This taught me a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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