Is it Illegal to Buy and Receive "Reproduction" Watches?

[illustrations]

Hello,

I have never ordered a repro watch from any maker. However, I have been looking over Andrew's site for some time now. When I visited yourtrustytime, something unexpected happened. I was redirected to a 2 page court order PDF. I live in the USA. Is it illegal to order and receive a reproduction watch? Can I get in trouble with the law by receiving a repro watch?

After reading another post on RWG, I saw that several customers are worried that their watches were seized by customs in the UK. Can this happen for USA customers? I know this is a newbie question. But if my order gets seized, am I SOL? Will Andrew send another watch or give me a refund?

Now that the watchmakers are cracking down, these are new problems for us in the Western world.

Edited August 21, 2012 by illustrations

[cc33]

Nothing is new, the customs agents have so much else to worry about besides a watch that may or may not be real. Drugs, terrorism, fake cash, fraud, and other illegal items all come first so when a parcel gets stopped its usually because they don't believe the value listed at "30$ gift" like the rep company's like to mark down.. worst case imo is they try to get the receiver to pay what they feel is the proper duties. It is extremely rare. No more chance of it happening now than it did in years past. And I don't believe these raid Bs stories for a second. Somebody out there wasn't getting paid. That's it. They are basically causing these problems to themselves. Pay the piper and the raids stop. That's my 2 cents. These company's like Rolex or whoever have no power to do anything they can make lawsuits all day long its a joke. China will do as they please. I can't answer your other question because I'm not a lawer but I would have to assume that buying a rep can't get you personally into trouble unless you are bringing them in by the barrel.

[PaneraiFan315]

Just from my own research into the matter, it is not illegal to buy and own reps. Customs may be an issue, although there is theoretically a very remote chance of them seizing your reps. I purchased 5 so far and I don't even consider customs as an issue at this point.

If your watch does get seized by customs, your TD will send you out another free. Although you may want to confirm that policy depending on the dealer.

I have used Trusty and Toro and they are both great at getting the job done. If this is your first time, you may want to use Trusty since he has great customer service and his response time is unreal.

Toro is a no-nonsense pro plus he has access to Noob stock.

Btw- Andrew's site is http://ttw168.com/

Free feel to PM me for any add'l questions.

Edited August 23, 2012 by PaneraiFan315

[freddy333]

It depends on the country. In most western countries, it is illegal to engage in the sale or transport (for the purpose of sale) of fraudulently trademarked goods. However, it is generally not illegal to possess fraudulently trademarked goods.

[maxman]

Here In the states we really dont have much to worry about. Of course anything can happen but It's extremely unlikely that your rep will be seized In the US. Just stick to the dealers here and all will be good.

Mike

[illustrations]

Just from my own research into the matter, it is not illegal to buy and own reps. Customs may be an issue, although there is theoretically a very remote chance of them seizing your reps. I purchased 5 so far and I don't even consider customs as an issue at this point.

If your watch does get seized by customs, your TD will send you out another free. Although you may want to confirm that policy depending on the dealer.

I have used Trusty and Toro and they are both great at getting the job done. If this is your first time, you may want to use Trusty since he has great customer service and his response time is unreal.

Toro is a no-nonsense pro plus he has access to Noob stock.

Btw- Andrew's site is http://ttw168.com/

Free feel to PM me for any add'l questions.

Thanks to everyone for your replies. The watch I am thinking about buying is from Andrew's site. It's one of his better reps and costs $358. I can understand why the Euro-makers are getting nervous. It appears the quality is outstanding, shockingly good in fact. The watch's durability and longevity will have to be tested with years of ownership though. On Andrew's page, it says "Waterproof to 30m... Pressure Tested at Factory Level." I wonder if it's truly waterproof. Imagine I am at a swimming pool and it becomes waterlogged. Here is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/ROLEXP2033

The UK Customs, I live in So. Cal. BTW, does seem to be clamping down. Here is a new example:

http://www.rwg.cc/to...re/page__st__60

The reason why I am even posting the above questions is because, when I visited Andrew's previous site, I was redirected to a legal form instead:

http://www.yourtrustytime.com/

That form is from a Florida court. I just don't want to get burned for $358, that's all. What does Noob mean?

Edited August 23, 2012 by illustrations

[PaneraiFan315]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. The watch I am thinking about buying is from Andrew's site. It's one of his better reps and costs $358. I can understand why the Euro-makers are getting nervous. It appears the quality is outstanding, shockingly good in fact. The watch's durability and longevity will have to be tested with years of ownership though. On Andrew's page, it says "Waterproof to 30m... Pressure Tested at Factory Level." I wonder if it's truly waterproof. Imagine I am at a swimming pool and it becomes waterlogged. Here is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/ROLEXP2033

The UK Customs, I live in So. Cal. BTW, does seem to be clamping down. Here is a new example:

http://www.rwg.cc/to...re/page__st__60

The reason why I am even posting the above questions is because, when I visited Andrew's previous site, I was redirected to a legal form instead:

http://www.yourtrustytime.com/

That form is from a Florida court. I just don't want to get burned for $358, that's all. What does Noob mean?

-Concerning your questions about the water resistance of a rep, I think you should have them independently sealed and water tested if you are going to swim with them (cost should be around $40). One of the modders, PBDad may be able to help and he is in So Cal as well. I have used him and his products have met my expectations.

-I think the customs issues other members are talking about are in the UK. I am not aware there is an issue in the states. I personally have not had any problems. My watches go into customs and released in about a day. My last two orders arrive in 5 days from approval of QC pictures to watch in hand.

-The legal form you are referring to is pretty common occurence when replica sites are seized, and for most purposes should be disregarded. Others who are more knowledgeable may want to confirm or reject my statement.

-"Noob" refers to one of the major factories in China that produces these replica watches. Until recently, it is considered the top one or the two of the major factories. The other is the "H factory". Noob seems to be experiencing some quality control issues recently if I am reading the feedbacks correctly. I personally think my PAM127 from Noob is incredibly good from a quality and finish perspective.

-You should be in good hands with Andrew. Just send him an email asking if he will replace a watch in the event it got tagged by customs. He will probably respond in 15 minutes. I get the impression he has an army of clones answering emails all named "Andrew".

All that said, the watch you are interested in is a brand I have zero knowledge in. You may want post your questions and concerns regarding that model in the Rolex forum where experts can chime in so you can have a good buying experience.

Edited August 23, 2012 by PaneraiFan315

[tomhorn]

The reason why I am even posting the above questions is because, when I visited Andrew's previous site, I was redirected to a legal form instead:

http://www.yourtrustytime.com/

That form is from a Florida court.

And that is because he is engaged in 'selling and transporting' which is illegal here in the US. Unless something's changed that we haven't heard about, owning is not a crime here in the US.

That isn't to say a rep won't get stopped by customs, because it does happen. That's why you work with the trusted dealers. They have experience in shipping, and most also have policies to take care of you if the worst happens. You can also look for items in the sales section that are being sold by US members and avoid customs altogether.

[preacher62]

In most countries, as in the U. S., it is illegal to sell a patent or trademark infringed product. Seizure occur because someone manufactured it for resale. They want to stop the distribution.

[panerai153]

Alrhough most of the customs seizure discussions lately have been related to the UK and other Euro countries, their is still an element of risk associated with shipping to the USA. It depends on the time of year, the customs office where your package arrives, and just how busy they are at the time. personally, I have never had a watch seized, but then, my buying of new reps has been pretty limited.

One thing that I do believe, if you ever have anything seized you are in the Customs computer. Everything is interlinked, sort of like having your passport scanned at Passport control at an airport. IF you ahve had troubles before, it will show up on the computer, even though you had a problem in San Francisco, and now you are re ientering the country through JFK. I had a personal connection with this sort of problem. my wife goes back to Europe every year to visit friends and family. Several yearsago, not really knowing the rukes , she brough some food products back with her, they were not in a factory package or sealed, she got stopped at JFK, and they went through her bags. they found the food items, and she got a stern warning from the customs inspector. For the next two years, she was stopped and checked. She didn't have anything illegal and after that hasn't been stopped again. I suppose after several trips through with no "hits" they take your name out off the list.My advice to her was just don't bring anything back that isn't a personal item like clothing, personal jewelry, etc. the biggest problem if you are getting stuff or carrying stuff and you are caught, it's going to be confiscated, and you are going to be delayed, probably miss your conecting flight, and have to spend the night at an airport hotel, just for bringing something in that you could probably buy at Walmart!!

Another thing, several years ago, some of the dealers were shipping watches inside of "toys" and labeling the contents o nthe custom form as a "Toy'. Several folks had problems, as the packagesare X-rayed, and the customs agents aren't fools, they can see a watch inside the package. i believe thay really sets off the alarms, as now they are pretty sure the ealer is smuggling counterfeit items into the country. much better to label the package 'fashion watch' or "novelty watch' rater than trying to hide it.

As several folks have said above, get to know your dealers policies before you buy. I believe that the active dealers probably factor in a percentage of seizures as a cost of doing business.If they do, and they are OK with resending another watch if they have proof of seizure, then you are not taking a lot of risk. If they don't agree to replace a seized watch, then, I would look elsewhere, or accept the risk of seizure.