fendushi Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I just had an email from a TD advising me to be careful when winding this Asian 6497 Manual Wind Movement (21,600bph) that's on the noob maker PAM111. I was advised not to wind it fully... to stop winding when resistance is felt (about 25 rounds). He also told me that the movt could break if its overwound. I have 3 other PAM reps that had 6497 (18kbph) (advertised swiss, but prob asian movt) and I wind them fully till it stops with no problems. Does anyone have any experience with these new Asian 6497 21,600bph movt? Is it possible to overwind them?? I dont think it's possible with my current PAM reps, it literally stops me from winding even more if it's fully wound. Can any one that owns any PAMs with asian 6407 (21.6bph) from noob maker confirm this? Can you wind it fully like normal 6497 and the clutch stops you from winding... or can you wind it indefinitely and over-wind the movt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerthat Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I think all he meant is don't force it once you reach the point of resistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folex Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I overwinded my Pam005, and it didnt work after. I winded until I couldn't but didn't force it further. But one day it just stopped. Serviced it, but never kept time again. So in conclusion, its possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Almost impossible unless you are the Hulk and very stupid.... Never ever encountered a 6497 movement which was overwound. Which means the main spring bridle or main spring itself broke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I have never had a problem, nor do I ever really feel "resistance" it is pretty consistent to the STOP. Unless you are heavy handed it should be fine. TIPS: ------ 1.) 649x's take about 40 thumb/forefinger forward pushes. (roughly half a rotation of the crown per stroke or 20 full rotations) 2.) You should never have a "grip" on the crown. Just enough pressure to rotate it, and IF/WHEN it hits the STOP your fingers should slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fendushi Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Almost impossible unless you are the Hulk and very stupid.... HULK.... WIIINNDDDD!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fendushi Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 The TD replied saying that some of his customers still try to wind at total resistance... one of them must be Robert Bruce Banner. Thanks for your input guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 the construction of some A6497 is not as precise as the ETA so it's possible for the click to get stuck or damaged when you overwind. I sold a watch once that worked perfectly until the buyer decided to overwind the movement and managed to damage the click and the crown in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 the construction of some A6497 is not as precise as the ETA so it's possible for the click to get stuck or damaged when you overwind. . It's impossible for the click wheel to get stuck, let alone damaged. It's design makes sure the ratchet wheel can always turn clock wise. That's what happens when you (over)wind. The only thing that can happen is that either the teeth of the crown or ratchet wheel break when forcing by fully wound. But in my opinion the bridle will break first as the contact point holding the main springs tension is the smallest at that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 It's impossible for the click wheel to get stuck, let alone damaged. It's design makes sure the ratchet wheel can always turn clock wise. That's what happens when you (over)wind. The only thing that can happen is that either the teeth of the crown or ratchet wheel break when forcing by fully wound. But in my opinion the bridle will break first as the contact point holding the main springs tension is the smallest at that spot. well it happened to one of mine. During the last turn of the ratchet wheel the click get stuck between teeth. I have to manually move the click to relieve some pressure from the main spring for things to go back to normal. It's a very weird behavior but it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Can one of the experts who say this is possible here define overwind for me please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Can one of the experts who say this is possible here define overwind for me please means the main spring bridle or main spring itself broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fendushi Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Doesn't matter now... I just got the watch. She winds like a beaut till fully wound, no problems... MORE PICS HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 That's one way of describing it. You would know if you snapped a main spring in a Unitas. Having a main spring bind as it is too tight is another but as it was explained to me during my training that it is watch makers talk for not sure but I will let the main spring down and if that fixes it I will charge you 30 quid for 3 min work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 BUMP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Necro bump...what is the world coming to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hey guys, I'm bumping this because it seems the closest situation to what I'm about to report. Last August I purchased from a TD a PAM292J H-Fac with the 21,600bph Asian 6497 movement. A few weeks after moderate usage, while winding I noticed resistance coming faster (less rounds) than before. Then did my research here and decided to take it to my watch smith. But as soon as I got there, the watch kinda got back to "normal" and properly winded, so he didn't even open it assuming it was probably my fault. I did find some resistance here and there, but decided I could live with it. Couple months later, I experienced the infamous RADs crappy lug/screw problem and the watch fell off of my wrist from about 6ft high... Besides getting a scratched crown and dented lugs, the dial got loose inside the case and the watch wouldn't wind anymore. DEAD. I then took it back to my (very experienced) watch smith who revived it for less than $80. Now, 3 months later the watch is hard to wind, again. Winded it last Saturday doing thumb/forefinger BACKWARD movements in between forwards and it lasted almost 56 hours (didn't count rounds). Yesterday I did count 27 thumb/forefinger forward-only pushes, which gave me a 26-hour charge. Well, I just did ridiculous 16 thumb/forefinger forward pushes and started to feel resistance..... The only way I can do more rounds is to wind it back and forth!!! By doing so am I overwinding it? (or have I already?) Has anyone seen anything like this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Necro bump...what is the world coming to Bumped it to avoid a new thread... Maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Well why didn't you highlight your problem in the first instance instead replying with a very useless "bump"? = necro bump A6497 are about $30-40 to buy new.... you do the maths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Well why didn't you highlight your problem in the first instance instead replying with a very useless "bump"? = necro bump Well sorry about that, did not mean to bother you or anyone here. Edited March 26, 2014 by paulvillo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 A6497 are about $30-40 to buy new.... you do the maths They won't come with proper engravings, so to me there's no point of buying a new movement as it kills the romance (not the math) of buying a rep. My watch smith charged $80 for the repair is because he was sure he had a gen in his hands. And for two simple reasons, I believe. First because he sold me half a dozen gens for the past 10 years, so an 8k Panerai was no surprise to him (he was not searching for flaws as we do here). Second, and most important, this replicas are absolutely AMAZING and able to trick the most experienced and talented WS/AD and I do not mean to ruin that for a couple bucks. Oh, yeah, he retired 3 years ago and opened his own repair center. I could obviously replace the movement, like a flat tire. And thank you but I'm looking for a more elaborate input on the matter, that is, if anyone ever had similar issues and even care to share at all. All the best mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korneevy Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 They won't come with proper engravings, so to me there's no point of buying a new movement as it kills the romance (not the math) of buying a rep. My watch smith charged $80 for the repair is because he was sure he had a gen in his hands. And for two simple reasons, I believe. First because he sold me half a dozen gens for the past 10 years, so an 8k Panerai was no surprise to him (he was not searching for flaws as we do here). Second, and most important, this replicas are absolutely AMAZING and able to trick the most experienced and talented WS/AD and I do not mean to ruin that for a couple bucks. Oh, yeah, he retired 3 years ago and opened his own repair center. I could obviously replace the movement, like a flat tire. And thank you but I'm looking for a more elaborate input on the matter, that is, if anyone ever had similar issues and even care to share at all. All the best mate. No disrespect..but two points: - that Rad has a closed caseback, so who cares if the movement is engraved or not? - if your watchmaker can't see that he has an Asian copy of Unitas when working on it, you need to find another watchmaker, and quick. If you ever try your luck and work on disassembly of Asian copy vs Swiss, and then try to put them both together, you will know what I mean. I am not watch smith by any degree of imagination, but I tinker enough with unitas movements to be able to tell the difference without any issue, unless it is swinese etc. As others said, just get a replacement movement for $50 or better still, get the whole new watch and keep this one for spares as with reps you will def need some sooner or later...this is still 800$ cheaper as compared to Panerai doing service on gen version of that watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 No disrespect..but two points: - that Rad has a closed caseback, so who cares if the movement is engraved or not? - if your watchmaker can't see that he has an Asian copy of Unitas when working on it, you need to find another watchmaker, and quick. If you ever try your luck and work on disassembly of Asian copy vs Swiss, and then try to put them both together, you will know what I mean. I am not watch smith by any degree of imagination, but I tinker enough with unitas movements to be able to tell the difference without any issue, unless it is swinese etc. As others said, just get a replacement movement for $50 or better still, get the whole new watch and keep this one for spares as with reps you will def need some sooner or later...this is still 800$ cheaper as compared to Panerai doing service on gen version of that watch. Thanks for elaborating. You may be right as I'm no DIYer. I am new to the rep world and this was my first rep, hence my cry for help. Having acquired almost a dozen genuine Rolexes, APs, Cartiers, Panerais and B&R in the past 10 years I assure you I am very well aware of Genuine investment. Specially where I live, where everything costs twice as much as where you live. The very same 292 that goes for less than € 6.500 in Firenze (with VAT return, I'm no citizen) is sold here for € 11.000 First I don't know how big the service was, or what did my WS had to do to revive it, as I couldn't care less. Second, the rep world (forum wise) is completely unknown here and I am pretty sure he'd never held a "super rep" or "first class high level rep" in his hand. So to my belief, having spent over $50k with him alone when he was an AD might have contributed to a "hmmm this movement seems wrong..." kind of thinking followed by a "not this guy" straight answer in his mind. Whatever. In a simple way, I came here to find out information and knowledge about the issue with such movement or if anyone had some similar problem to share their situation and solutions. Not looking for obvious statements such as get a new movement or buy a new rep, neither to brag about anything. Unsuccessfully so far. And no disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Please read the rules about visiting ADs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvillo Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Please read the rules about visiting ADs He's not an AD anymore. Like I said, he closed it and retired more than 3 years ago. Not to mention he's friends with my family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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