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Super franken 6265 (Black Sigma dial) Value ?


level z

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Hi Rolex gurus ... need some input on value of a super franken 6265 with the following specs ..

Basically the whole watch is genuine except for the all the hands... very good condition.. works well .. well loved and care for ....

- Movement and casing are from Phong (Vietnam)
- Bracelet bought in Hong Kong, Genuine (sized for 7 inch wrist 2 spare links)
- All hands not GENUINE
- Bezel & dial from VRF(Vintage rolex forum)
- Movement recently overhaul by spin master

Any information on it's value would be greatly appreciated. Please PM me if it is not convenient to list here.

Thx guys.

best regards
lz

IMG-20130121-WA0003_zps6bf50f46.jpg

Edited by level z
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In that case, (assuming an unmodified 727 in the case & the bracelet is a solid link 78350) I would estimate that you have about $5,500 worth of gen parts. If the bracelet is an earlier 7205 rivet with 71 ends or a 7835 folded link w/x71 ends, then you can add at least a couple grand to that figure, since those bracelets are both rare & highly sought after.

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phong doesn't sell gen movements...he modifies them with a combination of gen/rep parts and engraves mainplates to mimic a gen movement. Gen 727's are hard to source.......and usually sell for $7-10000.00

Mint Sigma dials can sell for up to $5000.00 depending on condition and year.....

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Gen Sigma Dial, cost somewhere between 2.2k€ and 2.5k€ in this condition

Phong Case & Back-Case, $850 + $350 => 900€

Gen 6265 bezel, i would say 700-800€ in this condition, but hard to tell with one photo only

Gen 78350 bracelet, not more than 300€ if in good conditions. If 571 end links you can add 200€, or 50€ for 557

Phong Valjoux 72 converted to 727... I don't know how it worth really. But let's say 900€ for a Valjoux 72 in good conditions, and he is charging  2250€ (  :bangin: ) for the movement conversion. I suppose he used aftermarket Rolex signed parts to make this transformation. If one of the 

You can add 200€ of servicing I guess. Plus another 100-200€ for the initial WM work

Crown & tube looks like 703 / 7030 ? Hard to tell. 150€. Add another 200€ if it's 702 or 700 crown / tube

P302 pushers x2 400€

Gen T21 plexi => 140€ (if it was sealed - many rep plexi are very good. Phong T21 looks very like gen)

Having your Daytona in one shot without looking to any parts / etc. => PRICELESS !!!!  :pimp:

 

Makes a total of ~8.4k€ - 8.8k€ >>>> $11.2k - $11.7k for the parts

 

I.M.O., the price should be less because it is truly impacted by the Valjoux 72 conversion. It really does not worth this kind of money Phong is asking. My 0.02 cents, I never was a big fan of movement conversion with aftermarket parts  ;)

 

To me, a fair price for the watch will be somewhere in the 7.5 - 8.5k€, depending of many factors we can't see in one picture

 

R.

 

PS: Finding some gen hands is a must... These are a huge tell when you know the real deal...! (700-900€ if you are enough lucky to find a set in good conditions)

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Gen Sigma Dial, cost somewhere between 2.2k€ and 2.5k€ in this condition

Phong Case & Back-Case, $850 + $350 => 900€

Gen 6265 bezel, i would say 700-800€ in this condition, but hard to tell with one photo only

Gen 78350 bracelet, not more than 300€ if in good conditions. If 571 end links you can add 200€, or 50€ for 557

Phong Valjoux 72 converted to 727... I don't know how it worth really. But let's say 900€ for a Valjoux 72 in good conditions, and he is charging  2250€ (  :bangin: ) for the movement conversion. I suppose he used aftermarket Rolex signed parts to make this transformation. If one of the 

You can add 200€ of servicing I guess. Plus another 100-200€ for the initial WM work

Crown & tube looks like 703 / 7030 ? Hard to tell. 150€. Add another 200€ if it's 702 or 700 crown / tube

P302 pushers x2 400€

Gen T21 plexi => 140€ (if it was sealed - many rep plexi are very good. Phong T21 looks very like gen)

Having your Daytona in one shot without looking to any parts / etc. => PRICELESS !!!!  :pimp:

 

Makes a total of ~8.4k€ - 8.8k€ >>>> $11.2k - $11.7k for the parts

 

I.M.O., the price should be less because it is truly impacted by the Valjoux 72 conversion. It really does not worth this kind of money Phong is asking. My 0.02 cents, I never was a big fan of movement conversion with aftermarket parts  ;)

 

To me, a fair price for the watch will be somewhere in the 7.5 - 8.5k€, depending of many factors we can't see in one picture

 

R.

 

PS: Finding some gen hands is a must... These are a huge tell when you know the real deal...! (700-900€ if you are enough lucky to find a set in good conditions)

Valty is right about the cost...........I would say even more on some of the parts......

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My guess (and it is a guess) is that to maximize your profit you will have to disassemble the watch and sell for parts - gen on VRF and Phong on a rep forum. I would guess $2-3k for the dial, $1000 for the bezel. All the Phong stuff selling at a rep forum will be severly discounted though. My rule of thumb when I buy Phong stuff is 50% of his price. So if you theoretically paid $3.5k for the Phong stuff (movement and case)I knock it down to $2k or less all in. So now we are at $5-6k for everything other than the bracelet. But that is a guess from a relatively ignorant person. :)

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W.

i think you are right. Another problem, you can only sell the genuine parts on VRF, the phong case, the caseback and the movement (if it is a phong modified movement) are all parts that you can only sell here and the other rep forums.

 

That's the Big,Big problem with building one of these wonderful "almost genuine" super frankens. When you decide to sell, you need to be prepared to take a real hit. A genuine Rolex if taken care of, especially one in nice condition is going to at least hold it's value, and probably appreciate over time. Reps on the other hand will almost always depreciate. i have seen this for almost 10 years, from my days on TRC and now RWG, i spent a lot of money modding (not anything like you spent on your Daytona) but when it came time to sell, folks acted like I was nuts to list a MBW 1665 SD for 900.00 USD! I had guys actually post "Man, this is a 400.00 USD watch, how can you ask 900.00 USD for it"? Well because there are probably 600.00 USD worth of genuine parts, plus the cost of getting it modded, so it's really a bargain. Maybe to me it is, but not to others. 

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@panerai153,

 

 

You are 100% right :) Selling high end reps is always a problem, especially when the price goes high. I think the only exception is the manual Daytona's, just because the gen are sold for too much money ($22-25k for the entry ?). So making a near-gen build for 1/2 or 1/3 of the gen price is not a bad idea. I see many frankens Daytona's on eBay go with very high prices (and they are sold as franken)

 

@Watchmeister,

 

I strongly think this kind of build should not sell for less than $9.5k / $10k, even if the Phong's stuff is highly depreciable in terms of value, it is still here and working fine :)

 

I agree about the spare parts deprecation, but building this kind of Dayto is truly one of the harder build in the Rolex world. I started buying my parts for my 2 frankens 1,5 years ago, and still don't have any "result"... :) Too much money, too valuable stuff, too fragile pieces, I had a hard time to find a WM in my country to do my project safely ;)

 

@dropbear,

 

Genuine T hands for manual Daytona's are too hard to find. Even dials are easy to catch... :) This is probably why the prices are sky-rocketing....!!! Indeed, there is no good quality aftermarket hands now. When you compare aftermarket hands VS the genuine, there is so much differences in terms of design & quality...

 

Some examples :

 

- I was amazed to see none of the aftermarket sub-dial hands have sharp ends like the original. None of them are the correct size, too. And I'm not talking if you want to go with a V726, witch have different pinion sizes than V72 or Rolex movements (chrono seconds pinion is much larger - that's a big problem).

 

- If you are looking the chrono seconds hands from Phong, most of them are not perfectly cut at each end. The arrow is not sharp as it should, and the "ball" at the other end is never like the original (plus too much material at the end, due of the cut problem)

 

- When you try to fit... let's say some DW hands on a V726. The chrono seconds hand have to be hardly modded, and considering it's made of aluminum, it breaks / bent very easily on resets.

 

- Do not compare the thickness and profile of aftermarket hands vs gen hands. Never. :) Aftermarket hands are very flat, and too thin (= very fragile). If you look at gen hands, they are rounded, not flat, thick, my english is too poor to find the right definition, but I would say they are in "3D", when the AM hands are in "2D". This makes a lot of visual differences, not talking about the resistance of the hands in the time.

 

Gen hands are made of brass or white gold, witch is more resistant than any aftermarket hands (I bet they are all made of aluminum). This way, they can be modded for fitting on V72 or V726 without too much worries if the WM is good...

 

Today, I would be very worried to have a rep Daytona without gen hands.

 

I should make a photo comparison one day... it worth the shot to be seen

 

@OP

 

I would love to see a macro photo of each sub-dial, especially the right one. Something looks strange in your photo, but it's hard to tell because the quality is too low. But I'm maybe wrong :)

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