panerai153 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I believe that quite a few guys who started out on reps, Jack@IWW was one of them, not necrerssarily only reps, but he did work on a lot of reps at first, but as his fame spread, guys like that who are really good,realize that they have plenty of genuine watch business, and they gradually slow the number of reps and increase the number of gens. I believe that some of that stems from frustration trying to literally make a "Silk purse out of a sows ear.Guys send their watchmaker a basket of parts, and expect a pristine, fully functional, 99.9% correct rep, and when it doesn't happen they are not happy. Years ago Ziggy was having trouble with folks sending watches and after he spent lots of time effort and money trying to fix the problem, the owner didn't want to pay.I doubt that most watchmakers who repair genuine watches end up with many of them still around unclaimed after 6 months!! Maybe a few, but not a real problem I would suspect. Another thing are charges. If yo uare working on someones Rolex or Omega, heprobably isn't going to quibble a bit if you tell him a complete service is 175.00 USD, a guy with a broken 200.00 USD rep isn't going to spend 175.00 USD to get the movement serviced. He would like the same service, but for 50.00 or 75.00 USD.The problem is it takes the watchmaker just as long and about the same amount of oil, grease, etc. to do the 75.00 service as it does to do the 175.00 Service. If you were in his shoes, which would you prefer? It's wonderful that we have the folks that we do who are willing to work on reps.Iwish twere were more, but I'm sure happy that we have some. MD, keep up the good work with the luming, it's a whole new world!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14060 or 16610? Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I believe that quite a few guys who started out on reps, Jack@IWW was one of them, not necrerssarily only reps, but he did work on a lot of reps at first, but as his fame spread, guys like that who are really good,realize that they have plenty of genuine watch business, and they gradually slow the number of reps and increase the number of gens. I believe that some of that stems from frustration trying to literally make a "Silk purse out of a sows ear.Guys send their watchmaker a basket of parts, and expect a pristine, fully functional, 99.9% correct rep, and when it doesn't happen they are not happy. Years ago The Zigmeister was having trouble with folks sending watches and after he spent lots of time effort and money trying to fix the problem, the owner didn't want to pay.I doubt that most watchmakers who repair genuine watches end up with many of them still around unclaimed after 6 months!! Maybe a few, but not a real problem I would suspect. Another thing are charges. If yo uare working on someones Rolex or Omega, heprobably isn't going to quibble a bit if you tell him a complete service is 175.00 USD, a guy with a broken 200.00 USD rep isn't going to spend 175.00 USD to get the movement serviced. He would like the same service, but for 50.00 or 75.00 USD.The problem is it takes the watchmaker just as long and about the same amount of oil, grease, etc. to do the 75.00 service as it does to do the 175.00 Service. If you were in his shoes, which would you prefer? It's wonderful that we have the folks that we do who are willing to work on reps.Iwish twere were more, but I'm sure happy that we have some. MD, keep up the good work with the luming, it's a whole new world!! +1000 Though not as exciting, working on a gen is just as satisfying, without all the drama. The pieces literally fall into place during assembly, no forcing. Spare parts are fairly easy to come by. Their owners are not afraid to spend for a new mainspring or other part. You save them hundreds of dollars, so they love you (especially compared to RSC $800+). It actually takes me much longer to service a rep A7750 than an ETA 7750 (can you say shock springs?). Some parts have to be pried apart, then forced back together. Need a spare transfer gear? Sorry - if there are spares out there, they are sitting in a dead rep in somebody's junk drawer. The owner is upset because you told him he needs $17 additional in parts and are also recommending a mainspring because the bridle is worn very thin since the assembler in China never put any grease on the barrel walls. And then the anxiety after I send a watch back to its owner. Waiting, waiting, no response... 95 percent of the time I hear back that everything is OK. On a few occasions the piece has to come back to me, usually something minor like a part broke (broken screw head is very common). But then there is the inevitable piece which gets sent back and forth and back and forth (and I never charge extra to look at a watch again). I may end up spending 2x or 3x the time it takes to service a gen trying to make the piece work, with futility. In the end it just isn't worth it. Even at $200, after supplies and taxes (yes I pay IRS taxes for this hobby) I am only making the equivalent of $10/hour on such a piece. I could earn more flipping burgers at McDonald's. Ultimately folks need to realize that, at the end of the day, we are dealing with a REPLICA here. The watchsmith you send it to is most likely just a hobbyist, not a full-time professional. He is working on your watch for enjoyment and challenge, usually in the evening when the kids have gone to bed. He doesn't have time to answer all the emails you send every 3 days checking on status. Yes, you spent $200 on a full service, and you would like gen-like performance from your piece, but with replicas there are simply no guarantees. That is a risk you undertake when you decide to have a movement serviced. This thread is about The Zigmeister. I can understand why he went to a locked-down, highly-screened client model. And I can understand why he ultimately wants a break from all this madness. More care and consideration needs to be exercised so the rep community doesn't lose more skilled technicians. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Well said. I had sent him lots of junk to work on over the years, and he always did well. But when I sent him my 6536 for a service, I swear I could hear him whistling a merry tune all the way over where he lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 +1000 Though not as exciting, working on a gen is just as satisfying, without all the drama. The pieces literally fall into place during assembly, no forcing. Spare parts are fairly easy to come by. Their owners are not afraid to spend for a new mainspring or other part. You save them hundreds of dollars, so they love you (especially compared to RSC $800+). It actually takes me much longer to service a rep A7750 than an ETA 7750 (can you say shock springs?). Some parts have to be pried apart, then forced back together. Need a spare transfer gear? Sorry - if there are spares out there, they are sitting in a dead rep in somebody's junk drawer. The owner is upset because you told him he needs $17 additional in parts and are also recommending a mainspring because the bridle is worn very thin since the assembler in China never put any grease on the barrel walls. And then the anxiety after I send a watch back to its owner. Waiting, waiting, no response... 95 percent of the time I hear back that everything is OK. On a few occasions the piece has to come back to me, usually something minor like a part broke (broken screw head is very common). But then there is the inevitable piece which gets sent back and forth and back and forth (and I never charge extra to look at a watch again). I may end up spending 2x or 3x the time it takes to service a gen trying to make the piece work, with futility. In the end it just isn't worth it. Even at $200, after supplies and taxes (yes I pay IRS taxes for this hobby) I am only making the equivalent of $10/hour on such a piece. I could earn more flipping burgers at McDonald's. Ultimately folks need to realize that, at the end of the day, we are dealing with a REPLICA here. The watchsmith you send it to is most likely just a hobbyist, not a full-time professional. He is working on your watch for enjoyment and challenge, usually in the evening when the kids have gone to bed. He doesn't have time to answer all the emails you send every 3 days checking on status. Yes, you spent $200 on a full service, and you would like gen-like performance from your piece, but with replicas there are simply no guarantees. That is a risk you undertake when you decide to have a movement serviced. This thread is about The Zigmeister. I can understand why he went to a locked-down, highly-screened client model. And I can understand why he ultimately wants a break from all this madness. More care and consideration needs to be exercised so the rep community doesn't lose more skilled technicians. Amen! You are so very right. I'm getting an increasing amount of PM's asking tons of questions, than to never hear anything again. "Give me you addres I will send watches" is one of te latest examples.... Bloody hell. I too Will be considering a minimum postcount in the future to even answer your PM. So freaking frustrating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I'm right there with u Rolexman, only if you where in the us, we could round up all the modders and open one super shop. Image that. That would be cool. Like "the fantastic four" or "Avengers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 That would be a great concept, one stop shopping!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 And now you modder guys are learning what the Ziggy's, RepAustria's and Palpatine's found out years ago. Rep customers are more finicky, cheaper and far less reliable than gen owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14060 or 16610? Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 And now you modder guys are learning what the The Zigmeister's, RepAustria's and Palpatine's found out years ago. Rep customers are more finicky, cheaper and far less reliable than gen owners. Werd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I'm too nice for this business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitesox Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 And now you modder guys are learning what the The Zigmeister's, RepAustria's and Palpatine's found out years ago. Rep customers are more finicky, cheaper and far less reliable than gen owners. Heck yes, The stories that I have heard and seen on the forums over the years would have tested my patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 The Zigmeister will be sorely missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Working on replicas is harder (for me anyway) than working on common genuine watches because of qc and parts problems. Sometimes you work hard but do not accomplished much. Examples... A couple watch traders owed me a little $$ and could not pay so they gave me a bunch of replica rlx in payment, the majority with DG/NN/ST movements. Most will not run reliably and they are not worth the trouble (to me) to get them running. Besides, you have to sell them to someone with a sense of humor about watches and they are getting hard to find around here. It's just a hassle. Traded into a non running 'noob type' 16610 timehead with swisseta 2836 (for about $50) that some Gomer got fingerprints on the dial trying to get it running (jumped it off?) so I c/o the thing plus a new ms and barrel, so now it is probably worth $150 at the most on a rubber strap. May have to sell the bare movement and call it a day. I bought a 1970s Wittnauer 'Geneve' for $10 (ss 'front loader' case, d/d sqs automatic, 10k fluted bezel, matte black dial) that needed a 'tuneup' (c/o, crystal, crown, strap, springbars), I will have $40 or $50 in it when it is finished and it will sell for $150 and not be back the next day. The exceptions in replica watches (in my experience) have been Frankensteins and swisseta powered models. I have a few Frankos (5512/13, 1680) with rlx 1575/1520, good cases/dials/tubes/crowns etc and they are dead nuts reliable. The catch is...for the same $$ you can buy a 100% genuine 6694, 1500 opd, early DJ etc. Had pretty good luck with swisseta 2824/36/46 powered replicas too, Most of the trouble has been with tubes/crowns/crystals. Have a steel rlx BB replica with Eta 2451 that I have had for 12 or 13 years and after c/o, genspec tube, gen 5.3mm crown, generic crystal etc right after I got it, the watch has never missed a lick. The replica BB is much better than the genuine BB I had a while back (no parts!)...I traded it for an Illinois RR Special (with extremely hard to find Southern RR dial) and a nice Hamilton 992B in nos Hamilton signed steel case. Iirc, the Hamilton had a list price of $160 in 1971 (I bought one new), it came in a small cardboard 'cigarette pack' box. My Frankenstein Rule is the watch needs to actually be worth the cost of the parts after it is finished. Franko Rule score? I'm batting about .333. I have stayed away from rep-o-graphs except for a couple ST19 examples (they were fine) and went so far as to buy a running Wakmann donor watch with a V72 along with a D-tona case of undetermined orgin but never started on it. Lost my nerve. http://horologist.yuku.com/topic/709/Last-Hamilton-992B-Pocket-Watch-Produced-4C-Prefixes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davea Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) I was told Rob will be focusing on Gens going forward ... He has repaired and relumed 3 watches for me. Jenn said he would service my Gen P.O. when the time comes. D Edited February 9, 2013 by davea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I was told Rob will be focusing on Gens going forward ... He has repaired and relumed 3 watches for me. Jenn said he would service my Gen P.O. when the time comes. D That's correct. I believe that he will probably be pretty selective with what he does and who he does it for, but as several of the others above have said, I think that he has finally reached the point where he can say adios to reps. I can't blame him, some of the stuff I've sent him over the years cerainly would try ones patience. However I have also sent him some really nice and interesting genuine watches to repair.He has been my go to guy for my Doxas over the years. Inicluding this one. It's not a 6538, but in it's own right, it's pretty special. It's the only example (to this point) of the Doxa submariner that was produced in the 1950's prior to the famous sub 300 watches. It was in pretty sad shaope when I found it, he overhauled the movement and stabilized the lume. Super job as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hey MD2020 .....Is your user name a referral to a certain "beverage"..???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 It works out that way but no its my initials. I just figured you're an ophthalmologist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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