correctime Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I agree. That's my pride in my build. +1 fredfree +1 JoeyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 There is no comparison of gen to rep. Are we clear on that? Replica means just that. 3717 is close. Other than that??? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erict719 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 If we be more picky on dial n hands for tc or wm9. and with out any scratches even under close up picture. then I guess with that kind if QC .. It's nothing less then a gen if its franken fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidhle007 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 correctime, on 28 Feb 2013 - 20:18, said: A build with an aftermarket case wouldn't give you the same thrill and gratitude (and the same smooth, precision movement and bezel action) as a genuine piece would ?? It is of course all about what a person really wants but I myself find it "more" rewarding and gratifying for the sake of it. Having the same case as you, also with a gen bezel I have an opinion: I will never buy a 3035 for this case because of the reverse hand setting direction. I can get a 2824 to keep time just as well and when I finally am happy with the dial/hands/dwo arrangement and everything is working smoothly I will be satisfied with my franken. I reshaped the case, it has all the gen add-ons and it looks right. But it's still a rep. IF, however, I had a gen 3035 movement and dial already I would not think twice about getting this case to house them in. The same reshaping and gen bezel/insert/crown/tube would obviously apply still and then I would consider it a gen with a replacement case. Like a car with a salvage title. Back to the original poster: when it comes to being called out it's not the watch that those in the know are going to be looking at. Your shoes, your clothes, your car, your age... If you don't fit the image then it's going to be assumed to be fake. I get the impression from your posts that you're younger, yes? In my mind, anyone under 35 with a Rolex on is suspect and I will be taking a MUCH closer look at the watch for tells. I will also be reading the person wearing it and based on that alone, might be able to tell if it's a rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Please do not re-quote an entire set of pics just to add a line or 2 at the end. I just press the "quote" button, pleas remove that button if you think its so frustrating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erict719 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I totally agree that getting call out is because of the image of other things , not the watch itself most of the time. yes, I am young, Only 25, But then thanks god I have a okay job , drive a BMW , and my other assessery are all gen, so I guess I am lucky to pull it off. To me, i could afford gen, its just that if we could get rep for so high grade, I would save the money to buy gen to buy other things, such as cars or wallet .. etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I have a good mixture of Gens and Reps including a superb franken 3717 and get enjoyment from wearing all of them, the reps as much as the gens, however I buy the gens (second hand) when I can afford them knowing that if I have to, I can sell them again and release the capital where as the reps wouldnt fetch much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivax Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Funny post. The price of a gen rollie keep increasing years after years because it's a collecting piece. For example, when they first release the daytona the price was 1200 usd now it's worth 30 times the price! Your rep even if it's a franken will be worth almost nothing in a couple of years! Just look what happened with the WM9 that was selling recently for almost half of gen prices. Now that TC released his version it's not the same story. Gen will always be gen and you will probably pass it to you sons and grand sons. Your rep is only a rep my friend and the value will always be the value of a rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 when they first release the daytona the price was 1200 usd now it's worth 30 times the price! I agree with your general premise, but the 1st Daytonas sold for much less than $1,200 & have increased by several orders of magnitude since then. Somewhere in my Rolex archives, I have a pic of an early 1960s magazine ad for a steel Daytona listing the suggested retail price as $198. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 It all boils down to what you really want and are prepared to spend. Like many of you, I could likely have purchased 3 or 4 gens with what's been shelled out for this and that along the way. I'm not ashamed in the least to say I have over 3k invested in the 16800 build (gen 1986 bezel assemblies, tritium hands and original boxes/paper/tags/accessories aren't cheap) For another 1k or so I could have easily purchased a nice preowned gen...but even being an aftermarket replacement case I'm certain I'm much happier with and prouder of this build than I would have been with buying a gen....for the simple fact of being able to say I built this one myself....and the searching/sourcing the right date era correct parts is what I enjoy. The only one that really knows the mvt. and case back is gen is me. And to me that's all that matters. There's plenty of rep/aftermarket cases and parts that can be used to easily prevent being "called out"...but preventing being called out isn't why I do what I do. If a case will allow going full-blown, all-out gen parts usage I'm going to do just that...regardless of how acurrate the rep/aftermarket parts look. But that's just the fun of it for me. A wise investment ??.....probably not....but I doubt I'd lose any money on it if I ever decided or was forced to have to part with it. (but if I were considering purchasing wathes as an investment it's not likely the 16800 Submariner would be on the list as a "money-maker) Fidhle: I "did" start with a case....then the dial....then gen 16800 bezel assembly...then gen mvt,...then gen trit hands...and so on and so on.And I specifically purchased a gen mvt FOR this case...... there's nothing backwards about the hand setting direction with the gen 3035 mvt in a replacement case designed for the 3035 . But there would be using an eta 2824-2. That and the clockwise date progression are opposite of the gen 3035 mvt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 MD2020......AWESOME looking pieces Brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I believe that a valid argument can be made for both sides of Gen vs Rep. In the above posts a lot of very valid points are made, on both sides of the fence. Personally, I have about about a two to one ratio of gens to rep. Aside from a couple, my reps are all pretty much modded to the hilt, or close to it. A fair number of my reps are watches I can no longer afford to own as a genuine. For the most part i have owned the gen counterpart at one time or another in my life, but as retirement rapidly approaches, i just don't feel like I can spend thousands of dollars on a genuine watch (I'm talking about a gen 6542 or 1665 for instance) Reps give me a chance to own and wear some of the old vintage watches that I wore 30-40 years ago. AFA collect-ability, gen watches such as Rolex win hands down. As Freddy said, back in the 60,s Daytona were around 200.00 USD, Red subs were even less! I bought my first sub in about 68-69 and it was around 250.00 USD, SD's were about the same price. Fast forward to around 1980. I bought a 18038 18k Day-Date with the President bracelet for 4000 USD, that was a lot of money in 1980. The watch was retailing for around 8000 USD, however a local jeweler was stuck with several Day-Dates she ordered for a local oil man who only took half of his order . She wanted to move the rest and she sold them at half price, probably about her cost, but she needed the cash, and I wanted the watch. That watch used today in good shape still sells for around 8000+ USD, so essentially you could have worn it for 33 years and sold it for the same price it retailed for. This is not necessarily so about other brands. Many genuine watches especially the more obscure, less well known brands don't appreciate at all, and in fact some depreciate quite a bit. The biggest advantage for gens is the availability of sources to sell watches. If you have a gen for sale, you have a myriad of outlets. WUS, TZ, Ebay, etc. almost every brand forum has a sales corner. This is not so with reps. You have the 3-4 rep sites, period. Another thing I have found over the years, people have a certain amount of resistance to paying top dollar for modded reps. Quite a lot of folks will sort of fixate on the price of the base watch, say a MBW, which sold new for 400.00 USD. in the case of a DRSD, you can easily add another 3k to that initial price, but try to sell it at 3.4k. Lots of posts, but not many buyers. Since you don't have many places to sell, you are handicapped from the beginning. I really care about my reps, but I realize the limitations of reps, both in getting them accurate and the ability to sell on on if it needs to go. For this reason, I've purposely tried to keep my rep collection limited to Rolex/Tudor models, with the knowledge that I'll never get my money out of them like i can with my gens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidhle007 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) I thought the 3035 sets the time CCW and the 3135 sets clockwise? Edited March 2, 2013 by Fidhle007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidhle007 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I'm almost 100% sure 3035s are CCW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red series 3 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 If you own a gen rolex and have dealt with your local service centre you will understand the difference. The customer service and treatment I have received from Rolex in Sydney is worlds apart from anything I have received elsewhere. I have been to swatch with gen Tissot and Omegas I have stood in queues with dozens of other people at tag heuer. In my eyes you would only buy Rolex or Tudor although I have started to appreciate some of the older panerais. The service at Rolex is the defining factor. Although I'm not interested in any of their new models at the moment With a rep when you have problems you are faced with the dilemma of who can you get to fix it. I have so many watches that are sitting in the drawer not working for this reason. There is nobody I know of that will fix my issues in Australia. I have tried one of the popular repairers from this forum and still have a paperweight but one that just cost me a shitload ofmoney to have it sitting round not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giobo Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Guys if your main concern is not to be called out then wear a rep.. Good reps like TC etc cannot be called out in real life.. But if you want to get something that feels right try to buy a gen.. Nothing bits it..A rep is always a rep.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erict719 Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Guys if your main concern is not to be called out then wear a rep.. Good reps like TC etc cannot be called out in real life.. But if you want to get something that feels right try to buy a gen.. Nothing bits it..A rep is always a rep.. Well I want something that can be hold on hands by other and not get call out. Well I know wm9 or tc could Hand over with no call out . but damn... My wm9 dial have a few scratched up markers which people look close will call out as a rep. Since of the QC, i need to change my dial as soon as possible. By the way , anyone got a tc dial and hands to sell me ? Or even new wm9 dial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 "I agree with your general premise, but the 1st Daytonas sold for much less than $1,200..." http://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sishac Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Someone said it best....a rep is and will always be a rep. I have a few higher end reps and a few higher end gens. I'm in my 40s, and can financially pull off whatever watch I put on. I find myself staring at my wrist whether I'm wearing my MBK 5513 or gen 1675. It's a watch fascination. The one big thing is that the reps are for me....one day I will hopefully hand down a few nice gens to my daughter. The reps will probably eventually get parted out as they are not heirlooms like a gen. I still love them all, but I think you have to be smart enough to know the differences and the reality of your obsessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'm almost 100% sure 3035s are CCW... Yes. The gen 3035 progresses the date and the time by turning the crown CCW. I was referring to the direction the DW turns when date avances....and that CCW too. So a 2824-2 wouldn't be "acurrate" in a 16800 3035 build. In a 16610...yes..it would be coorect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Well I want something that can be hold on hands by other and not get call out. Well I know wm9 or tc could Hand over with no call out . but damn... My wm9 dial have a few scratched up markers which people look close will call out as a rep. Since of the QC, i need to change my dial as soon as possible. By the way , anyone got a tc dial and hands to sell me ? Or even new wm9 dial If you're taking your watch off and handing to others for close appraisal you'll do better getting a gen Brother. Again...check with TC....he has dial and hands still available....I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Someone said it best....a rep is and will always be a rep. I have a few higher end reps and a few higher end gens. I'm in my 40s, and can financially pull off whatever watch I put on. I find myself staring at my wrist whether I'm wearing my MBK 5513 or gen 1675. It's a watch fascination. The one big thing is that the reps are for me....one day I will hopefully hand down a few nice gens to my daughter. The reps will probably eventually get parted out as they are not heirlooms like a gen. I still love them all, but I think you have to be smart enough to know the differences and the reality of your obsessions. I agree...a rep is always a rep. I just have to queston when does a gen become "not" gen. Take a gen 16610 for example...it's all original but somewhere along the way it's had an aftermarket bracelet, crystal, crown and insert installed on it. Is it still a gen having those aftermarket parts on it ?? (many would answer yes.....but why is that??) My viewpoint on that is................... What's the difference in adding a bunch of aftermarket parts to a genuine case or adding a bunch of genuine parts to an aftermarket case I personally don't see the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erict719 Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 If you're taking your watch off and handing to others for close appraisal you'll do better getting a gen Brother. Again...check with TC....he has dial and hands still available....I think. With higher QC , rep can be close observe I think. Tc never reply my emails. I don't know what's wrong. Maybe I didn't order from him before so he don't answer me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Guys, Sorry but let’s be straight: isn't it more a question of having the money to buy each watch gen? In my case, it is. I buy "good" reps because I cannot afford every single watch I like as gen I had several gens in the past, at the same time, and now only a 16610 & JLC Master Control because my finances are down. The 20 others watches currently in my boxes are reps...fake...copies... Some very good copies but NEVER as good as a gen (coming with the service of the gen brand and with the value that will increase through the years by the way). Try to resell you super franken for the money you put in it… If I was making a million a year I would never waste my time with the reps and their ongoing problems! On the other hand, what IS very nice in the rep collection is that you get to know people from around the world, meet them and make friends with watchmaker skills that can swap the dead CHS movement on an Explorer II to fit a cool ETA 2836-2 with ICHS that works fine for years or relume a Noob Factory DeepSea! Would you eat fake beef, kiss fake girls, fly fake planes? I don't think so. Bottom line: we are poor (at least I am) My two gens that are my favorites I simply hope I will ever have to sell them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erict719 Posted March 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 I agree.. I believe lots of us could afford gen. Just for me, I think if we could get a watch which is 90% as good for 20% of price. I will save money for other area . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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