slay Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 what do you guys think, why are asian 7750 watches more expensive (around 100$ more) than ETA powered watches (non-chrono eta's!) Okay, the 7750 is a chrono movement, but it still is asian and i dont believe the manufacturing costs are higher for those movements then for swiss eta's! regular asian automatic movements are like 3$, so WHY are those 7750's so expensive and STILL so bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 probably because there is enough demand for them ... chronos are popular. I wondered the same thing seeing the prices of the new submersibles based on the asian 7750 movements. Without having to construct the pushers, subdials etc they are not far off the price of an IWC GST Chrono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 thats what got me thinking too! i would prefer a submersible with eta 2836 (and it's probably possible for ~200$ since a rlx sub is also only 200!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 nicht alles was hinkt ist auch ein vergleich (sorry cant translate that one!) now why would a chrono movement make more sense in a watch that doesnt act as a chrono? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) now why would a chrono movement make more sense in a watch that doesnt act as a chrono? It's because it has the seconds dial at the 9 o'clock position. An ETA 2836 has the regular standard second hand that everyone is used to in the middle. The question is, what is the difference between the 21j Asian automatics (eg. Arktos around USD140) and these Asian 7750 copy based watches which we are seeing for over double that price. The reliability of the Asian 7750 copy in this instance should be fine, as The Zigmeister did his breakdown and there was no problem with normal timekeeping - only the chrono functions in the original 7750 copy had problems. These particular submersibles don't have a chrono function, so in theory the Asian 7750 copy should be pretty solid here. Edited March 27, 2006 by Chronus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 nicht alles was hinkt ist auch ein vergleich (sorry cant translate that one!) Google's German to English transaltion is: everything which limps is also a comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBombadil Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 nicht alles was hinkt ist auch ein vergleich (sorry cant translate that one!) now why would a chrono movement make more sense in a watch that doesnt act as a chrono? Because of the seconds subdial. The ETA 2836 has a center seconds hand. Also, if you want a PAM with a date, you need the 7750 since the hand wind does not have a date (and it is hand-wind). The 7750 gives that ability for the watch to act like the gen. Finally, the 'swiss' ETA is most likely manufactured (at least partially) in asia. The 7750 is a more complex movement which is why it commands the higher price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) but i think it cant be that hard to transfer seconds @9! they did it with the asian movements, so i dont see why this shouldnt be possible with an eta! but i doubt we will ever see eta pam's (besides the 6497) The 7750 is a more complex movement which is why it commands the higher price. its still asian made, and most of them are of crappy quality! still no justification for the high price! the ETA's which are assembled in asia still have well made parts (up to swiss standarts) Edited March 27, 2006 by slay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) Also, if you want a PAM with a date, you need the 7750 since the hand wind does not have a date (and it is hand-wind). The 7750 gives that ability for the watch to act like the gen. Does the genuine Swiss ETA 7750 movement have date? I'm wondering if this is the case, what is the advantage of the 7753 over the 7750 in the PAM196 daylights? Just to have the same movement as the genuine ? I had thought that the main difference was that the 7753 was an additional date function... Ok I have checked on ofrei: http://www.ofrei.com/page240.html The difference is obviously the subdial positions Wonder why they don't make an Asian copy of this for and adapt it for the Daytona? Just thinking out loud... Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........... Edited March 27, 2006 by Chronus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 according to ofrei, 7750 has both, day and date function! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 but i think it cant be that hard to transfer seconds @9! they did it with the asian movements, so i dont see why this shouldnt be possible with an eta! but i doubt we will ever see eta pam's (besides the 6497) its still asian made, and most of them are of crappy quality! still no justification for the high price! the ETA's which are assembled in asia still have well made parts (up to swiss standarts) I would think it would have similar problems transferring the ETA seconds to a subsidiary subdial. They should stick a rotor on the ETA Unitas 6497 instead and make it automatic but no date! No idea why the price is high on the chrono copy movement though, although reliability should be fine. If you are *really* bothered having an Asian copy movement (and after what happened with your Asian movement 1950 I can understand), you could always wait for the inevitable price drop and buy an ETA 7750 movement and put it in there. I would think they would be similar sizes but you should check that with someone who knows. If I were you, save the genuine ETA movement for a real chrono watch instead... just to get the sub seconds is a waste in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) according to ofrei, 7750 has both, day and date function! Yep, I just checked, thanks for the info in any case. Edited March 27, 2006 by Chronus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 On another note, I should be getting a silix Asian 7750 copy based IWC GST Chrono in titanium (as part of that group buy). I *think* it has a day/date facility and will let you know how well it performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 They're not charging you more for the movement... They are charging you more for the new watches they are coming out with. We always pay a premium for the latest design... They just got smarter and took advantage of that and made much more money with a less expensive movement. So we are getting screwed... a bit, but not as badley as the previous incarnation of the asian 7750. Saying that, I am very happy with the IWC GST chrono, seems as good as a swiss in regards to the smoothness and keeping time well within COSC specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 still i havnt seen a asian 7750 watch for less than 250$. most are around 300$. no matter how old the watches are eta powered watches are available for 150$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 its still asian made, and most of them are of crappy quality! still no justification for the high price! the ETA's which are assembled in asia still have well made parts (up to swiss standarts) That is an outdated view, newer Asian movement are rivaling eta. Most eta movements for Swiss companies are assembled in China and I would bet that there are so called Swiss companies, in order to save even more money go for Chinese made parts, after all, if the mold and metal are the same, what is the difference ? Lastly the newer 7750b1 are an excellent engine, and are a bargain when compared to the genuine article, and much more versatile than eta 2 series so an excellent choice for us when needs arise, balancing reliability with price. Besides if one were to start modifying eta movements, they would no longer be eta and more prone to breakdown, as the rule goes.. the more modifications the more potential problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 They're not charging you more for the movement... They are charging you more for the new watches they are coming out with. We always pay a premium for the latest design... They just got smarter and took advantage of that and made much more money with a less expensive movement. So we are getting screwed... a bit, but not as badley as the previous incarnation of the asian 7750. Saying that, I am very happy with the IWC GST chrono, seems as good as a swiss in regards to the smoothness and keeping time well within COSC specs. I look forward to that one. Actually, I think I asked one of the dealers (Joshua?) about the possibility of a genuine ETA 7750 in the IWC, or if it's possible to swap it, but was told that the case is not big enough... is this correct? I wonder if anyone has tried. And yes, new models tend to be more expensive when they first come out - just look at the PAM 187 with Asian chrono movement - USD$ 1000 ! Crazy! If it had a 7753 movement, as a new rep model, maybe some more would want it.... I think it's best to wait for the price to come down. At least for those of us who can't afford it (eg. me!) If they are using the Asian 7750 copy movement in the PAM187, I would be worried, as they would have to use a similar gear system to the ones seen in the Daytona to move at least one dial (12 o'clock to 3 o'clock). I'm not sure if the 6 o'clock dial is already the correct one there, but the 9 o'clock already has seconds there. The extra gearing puts an extra strain so I would expect the power reserve to also be lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Google's German to English transaltion is: everything which limps is also a comparison Not everything that limps ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBombadil Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 but i doubt we will ever see eta pam's (besides the 6497) There are PAM GMTs out there that have ETA 2892 in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 There are PAM GMTs out there that have ETA 2892 in them. Silix said the factories don't make the PAM GMTs with ETA 2893-2 movements any more, so get them while you still can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasng Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 still i havnt seen a asian 7750 watch for less than 250$. most are around 300$. no matter how old the watches are eta powered watches are available for 150$ Wrong. I got a brand new seconds at 6 with correct subdial spacing TT Daytona from River for $200 with EMS shipping included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Wrong. I got a brand new seconds at 6 with correct subdial spacing TT Daytona from River for $200 with EMS shipping included. Technically, his statement is correct, but he cannot repeat it after seeing yours... ok now I'm being pedantic, better go eat dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Slayer, if you *really* are off the Asian movements and want the ETA 7750, maybe you can ask a dealer if they can get you the watch without a movement. Then buy the ETA 7750 and put it in there, get a re-lume, etc and you've got what you're after! I'd suggest silix prime or watchmmx (i think they do cases) or even try looking on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted March 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 its not the asian movement that bothers me, it just bothers me that its so expensive for such little value! Wrong. I got a brand new seconds at 6 with correct subdial spacing TT Daytona from River for $200 with EMS shipping included. that was a "special admin" price then...! fact is, the average price for a asian7750 watch is 250-350$! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 its not the asian movement that bothers me, it just bothers me that its so expensive for such little value! that was a "special admin" price then...! fact is, the average price for a asian7750 watch is 250-350$! I compare the 7750b1 to price of Gen 7750, and see it as an excellent value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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