markiemark Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Last week I sold my Marlin PAM111 to a man who desperately wanted it. (original thread: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/164578-sold-marlin-modded-pam111-with-gen-gold-calf-cashmere-strap/) He wanted the head only and additional pics: The watch arrived yesterday, and he sends me a picture telling me there is a scratch on the crystal: I know for 100% that it had no scratch when I shipped it. The watch is 3 months old, I always took it of at work (desk-job) and as soon I got home. I never bumped into anything with it either. It could not happened during shipping, because I bubble wrapped the sh*t out of it: Now he wants to send the watch back and a full refund, because the watch is not perfect (literally his words). There are 3 reasons why I cannot do this: 1) I already spent the money on another watch 2) I know for sure that I didn't scratch it 3) I know he owns an unmodded PAM111, so I don't know whether the pic he sent is mine or his... This is the very first time that I encountered a problem with selling here. So that's why I'm seeking advice on what to do as well as opinions regarding the pics. Did I lacked certain things or... ? Can he polish the scratch out? I posted this thread with his agreement for opinions/advice. Much appreciation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT88 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Get him to post both yours and his 111 here?And IMO, I doubt this warrants a full refund too. probably a cost of the crystal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concepta Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 M The first pics..are they yours? Because the 2nd pic i think shows the scratch!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamba Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 i dont habe the 111 anymore what you mean.Its Sold, i search the thread on rwi.it is 100% your Watch with the scratch, polished and flatten Canon Pin.What can u do that you believe it is yours, that i dont Lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 M The first pics..are they yours? Because the 2nd pic i think shows the scratch!? +1 If that is your pic mate...the scratch is clearly there.... and is the same shape as the pic with the red highlight..... The problem is as we all know that a scratch varies in light in angle especially on sapphire so some pics might not reflect it whereas other angles and lighting can... I can understand how you could have missed it... However given it cant be seen too easily it must be light scratch so it can be buffed out without reducing the crystal surface too much..... the AR is single sided so you wont damage the AR.... you need to purchase a diamond paste kit for sapphire scratch removal. Thats if the buyer accepts that or some other arrangement like replace crystal and/or partial refund or return...TBH I would be happy with a partial refund as it can happen and just shows use etc etc.... the issue of course comes if the guy wants to sell it on... so reaching a figure is the difficlut part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netniet Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 M The first pics..are they yours? Because the 2nd pic i think shows the scratch!? I have to agree, on the 2nd pic I also think the scratch is visible, on the others pics its not. A full refund is not in place here, I would suggest to pay for a new crystal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamba Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 next is, yoou tell me watch is regulated and all like this, +3/sec a day, i test it with Kello, it says +22/sec, and yes i know its not the perfekt test, but with my 005 regulated from domi, it says +2/sec and thats right. i don't know what happened but now i can send the watch again anywhere to regulated them, i pay you lot of money, you says movement is lake a charm, runs perfect, no scratch an so on, and now? and yes, now you tell, maybe its not your watch, exactly like the scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 next is, yoou tell me watch is regulated and all like this, +3/sec a day, i test it with Kello, it says +22/sec, and yes i know its not the perfekt test, but with my 005 regulated from dimi, it says +2/sec and thats right. i don't know what happened but now i can send the watch again anywhere to regulated them, i pay you lot of money, you says movement is lake a charm, runs perfect, no scratch an so on, and now? and yes, now you tell, maybe its not your watch, exactly like the scratch. Unfortunately regulation can be knocked off kilter by shipping.... it does happen....I have had gen watches and swiss movements do it... but It shouldnt take much to do that mate...indeed you could do it yourself if so minded...however you cannot say that the seller mislead you in respect of the regulation mate.... Indeed I am sure Mark didnt mislead you in any respect.... and the issue of the fine scratch could easily be missed..... I believe Mark is a genuine guy and I am sure between the 2 of you that a comprimise can be reached I know it is frustrating but please dont get yourself worked up and make things worse for yourself in your mind..it is easy done..I have done it myself so I know the pitfalls .. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamba Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 ok, regulated is shipping fold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 ok, regulated is shipping fold... Just deep breaths my friend...I know...believe me...I know how frustrating this can be.... it is hard but try to keep a balance in your mind.. I am sure matters can be resolved... :) Might I suggest that if the buyer is adamant about a refund and the seller hasnt the money to refund.. That maybe you could between the 2 of you resell the watch...with disclosure and agree a revised asking price etc Then buyer can resell it and seller can cover the difference in actual sale costs.... you can both agree if an offer is made...or if price needs to be reduced further etc etc That way you avoid returning costs etc and trying to get money that seller doesnt currently have... It aint perfect resolution but it might be best way to resolve the issue given seller and buyers position ... and after all we are still talking about a good quality watch so it would still get a decent price.. And while doing that it might be possible to source a good sapphire from a WTB etc that can be also sold with the watch ... if you get what I mean...the seller can perhaps chase that while buyer reposts a sales thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markiemark Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I apologize Walter, I didn't mean to call you a liar. And I did not lie about the regulation. I didn't see the scratch on my pics on in real life until other member called it out. I did see something on the pictures when I was writing the post. But I thought it was the reflection of the camera lens like in the first pic. Does anyone know what a new crystal costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I apologize Walter, I didn't mean to call you a liar. And I did not lie about the regulation. I didn't see the scratch on my pics on in real life until other member called it out. I did see something on the pictures when I was writing the post. But I thought it was the reflection of the camera lens like in the first pic. Does anyone know what a new crystal costs? I have seen them starting at around $30 for an H makers no AR....upto around $60 ish all in for the better Noob and H maker ones with AR..... A WTB would be best IMHO or you can try contacting Angus etc and getting a quote for one from him direct... Noob dont like selling parts and if they do they are expensive but H maker will ... But a WTB on all the forums might be more successful... or indeed why not ask Marlin mate.... he might have some laying around as spares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markiemark Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I have seen them starting at around $30 for an H makers no AR....upto around $60 ish all in for the better Noob and H maker ones with AR..... A WTB would be best IMHO or you can try contacting Angus etc and getting a quote for one from him direct... Noob dont like selling parts and if they do they are expensive but H maker will ... But a WTB on all the forums might be more successful... or indeed why not ask Marlin mate.... he might have some laying around as spares Thanks mate! How about cape cod? will that do the trick? The crystal has single AR on the inside right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Thanks mate! How about cape cod? will that do the trick? The crystal has single AR on the inside right? Yes to single AR inside and yes to CC but only if scratch is very fine IMHO I would need to see the crystal itself to judge properly best option but if that dont work I might use a low cut compound initialy if it is as fine as it seems to be...I would likely try that first as I dont have diamond paste to hand..but chances are it wont work so I would probaly get the diamond paste scratch removal kit.... but I would start with the finest of the pastes as I dont think this scratch would need the whole method... ie larger grit paste then medium grit then fine or superfine paste... So basically a 0.5micron or preferably 0.25 micron paste.. You can do this by hand or using a tool... pretty quick and easy once you have the paste Here are some reference links to get an idea of what I mean http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=1932539#msg_1932539 http://www.pmwf.com/Phorum/read.php?24,32412,32412 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panermaniac Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Pete to the rescue once again... it's great to be surrounded by such helpful members! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 +1 the paste is going to be the easiest way, and the cheapest. Getting it regulated again is easy for any watch repair person with a timer, should only be $10 ~ $20 plus the postage, or find someone local. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I've been buying and selling for a long time......just as a rule I never spend money until I hear the buyer is happy. My gen PO had a scratch on the bezel I missed when selling and sure enough when I looked at my pics,,it was there. ended up doing partial refund for a few hundred...but in the end...the buyer was happy...you never know the type of ocd the buyer might have...for some a scratch kills the whole watch....for me...I couldn't care less about a scratch...but 100 other weird things mess up the whole experience for me....just my take on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I've been buying and selling for a long time......just as a rule I never spend money until I hear the buyer is happy. My gen PO had a scratch on the bezel I missed when selling and sure enough when I looked at my pics,,it was there. ended up doing partial refund for a few hundred...but in the end...the buyer was happy...you never know the type of ocd the buyer might have...for some a scratch kills the whole watch....for me...I couldn't care less about a scratch...but 100 other weird things mess up the whole experience for me....just my take on it... I agree with you. Sales proceeds stay in my PayPal account until the buyer lets me know that everything is OK. I have been buying and selling genuine watches for around 40 years, way back before the internet, when you sold by word of mouth or ads in newspapers!! I have encountered some buyers that were so crazy picky, that I'm not sure a brand new, never been out the box watch would satisfy them!! I sold a really nice MKII to a guy in Australia a few years ago. Watch had hardly been used, had a few swirlies, and a couple of scuffs on the back. Probably could be polished to like new in about 10 minutes with a cape cod (Which I didn't have at the time) I sent him 8 or 10 really detailed high def photos from every angle. He bought the watch, and a few weeks later he emailed me that everything was fine, and as described, but the little swirlies was driving him crazy and he was going to sell the watch on. I asked him if he actually wore his watches or were they all museum pieces. I don't think he particularly appreciated my remarks, but my point was " if you wear watches, they are going to get scratched up, that's just life. No matter how careful you are there is going to be normal wear and tear" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I dont agree with anyone ...in fact I dont even agree with what I am writing in this post... The only thing I think I can agree is that I dont agree with what I am not agreeing to here.... and if i did then I could only agree to disagree with anything that I may agree with.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markiemark Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 We worked something out. I am giving him a partial refund so that he can send it to domi for fixing up the crystal. I also want to make a public appology for not checking the crystal 100% and having doubts the buyer was lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamba Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 i say thanks to, mark is a honest man and he send me an refund. so all fine and thanks for the appology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernow Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Awe group hug. Well done for sorting it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitmic Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 That's a class act guys. I'm glad it was sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtiis Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 This illustrates to things for me: 1) ALWAYS take pictures of my watch from various angles to be able to show the condition of the watch as sent. 2) Don't get to upset if something starts off wrong in a sale or purchase as "things happen" - but - with good communication (as ultimately happened here) - things can often work out. 3) Never look to Pete for support in a discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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