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-update- [Ultimate Movement Review] Panerai P3000 super clone


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Man they are so close, a few modifications and adjustments to the gear train and the main plate and they would be right on..... I wonder if they did this intentionally so as not to copy the inner workings of the gen? Sooooo close......

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First of all a big thanks to Toro Bravo for a lightning fast delivery and smooth transaction. You can't go wrong with him and he is definitely on his way to being one of the best dealers throughout th

....And replate the bridges because they are made out of a brass coloured metal which will shine through. But technically possible. A job for Marlin

Got mine from Toro too, it was still running upon opening the box and it was in transit from China for six days.   Great write up Rolexman, I was very curious to see how the movement was constructed

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That timegrapher comes with 52 degrees as the default and must be adjusted, I would assume that as the high beat 6497-2 which beats the same as this movement at 21600vph it should also use a 44 degree setting, but can't be sure as this is an in house movement and there are no specs on it yet.

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Thanks for the terrific tear down of the clone p3000 movement, Rolexman!  I am really curious to see what the final power reserve ends up holding at, as 72 hours is nothing to sneeze at, especially for a built from the ground up piece like this.   Either way, I think that I will have to add this to my short list of PAMs to get in the near future.  By the time that it finally has front and center on my list, the 2nd iteration may be done and have corrected some of those tell tale jewels (mainly, hopefully those tiny ones will be made larger to look more like the OEM)...

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That timegrapher comes with 52 degrees as the default and must be adjusted, I would assume that as the high beat 6497-2 which beats the same as this movement at 21600vph it should also use a 44 degree setting, but can't be sure as this is an in house movement and there are no specs on it yet.

Indeed. Also the lift does nothing for the rate and beat just the amp. At full wind and 52 lift it hits the 340 amp. That is why I believe the lift is somewhere around 47-48. but I will check as soon as I have checked the power reserve.

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Excellent work Rolexman, reminds me of the old days and The Zigmeisters reviews

Thanks buddy.

Some PR answers. It is now surpassing the 80h power reserve which is phenomenal!!

Here are some timegrapher pictures which show how the movement performs throughout the PR cycle. Personally I think the rate gain is a bit much. Some is normal by the decrease of amplitude.

Causes for the rate gain can be plural but my guess is the design is flawed. They just added another barrel not caring about performance (throughout even power transfer). It gives a larger PR so who cares about time keeping.... That and a hair spring that is probably not very isochron due to a poor dog leg (technical stuff). Just remember if you want to wind this watch every 2 days to regulate it 30 seconds slow when fully wound. Then you will get a pretty accurate time keeping.

Fully wound

5CDA9B74-6AC9-40E0-BDF5-2AACE04D0E3C_zps

24h

597FB96C-F56D-4BAC-90AC-6AF0D70A2773_zps

48h

CBC3A60B-707B-4D9A-8A53-C7F5C189147B_zps

72h

CCE3AF09-6B76-4990-831C-CDA32062BACB_zps

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....And replate the bridges because they are made out of a brass coloured metal which will shine through. But technically possible. A job for Marlin :)

 

I think it is best we wait for the next versions to come out this is only their first attempt. Besides even if you were to correct the jewels which by itself is quite the job, there are still a few tells that scream REP staring with the gears and ending with the stepped balance pedestal on the main plate. As I've said before it is a very good start and with some machining, bigger jewels and geartran configuration changes if they wanted to they could get this movement vary vary close. Now it is just a matter of whether they want to or not, plus remember in order to justify the cost of R&D and the cost to produce these things the factories have to order large quantities so no one knows how many of these movements have been produced and I can guarantee you they will not just throw them away. This is a money game so it might be a while before we see ant changes done to this, hope I am wrong.

 

I've always been one to wonder why they don't put out the prototypes to the people in the know it the rep community before they just flood the market with the things they think everyone will buy and have such obvious flaws. That said I am sure they are flying off the shelf.

Thanks buddy.

Some PR answers. It is now surpassing the 80h power reserve which is phenomenal!!

Here are some timegrapher pictures which show how the movement performs throughout the PR cycle. Personally I think the rate gain is a bit much. Some is normal by the decrease of amplitude.

Causes for the rate gain can be plural but my guess is the design is flawed. They just added another barrel not caring about performance (throughout even power transfer). It gives a larger PR so who cares about time keeping.... That and a hair spring that is probably not very isochron due to a poor dog leg (technical stuff). Just remember if you want to wind this watch every 2 days to regulate it 30 seconds slow when fully wound. Then you will get a pretty accurate time keeping.

Fully wound

5CDA9B74-6AC9-40E0-BDF5-2AACE04D0E3C_zps

24h

597FB96C-F56D-4BAC-90AC-6AF0D70A2773_zps

48h

CBC3A60B-707B-4D9A-8A53-C7F5C189147B_zps

72h

CCE3AF09-6B76-4990-831C-CDA32062BACB_zps

 

 

 

Rolexman the time keeping characteristics are not the best, there is a reason the gen has a different and almost opposed gear train configuration, that is most likely were smooth and consistent transfer on power is lost as it makes its way to the escapement. The other problem is  not every rep owner can adjust their watch nor should they and definitely not all have a timegrapher. This needs further looking into once it reaches the general rep population we will know what the real deal is and how bad the time keeping characteristics of the movement is.

 

Thanks and great write up, keep up the good work!!!!!

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Rolexman the time keeping characteristics are not the best, there is a reason the gen has a different and almost opposed gear train configuration, that is most likely were smooth and consistent transfer on power is lost as it makes its way to the escapement. The other problem is not every rep owner can adjust their watch nor should they and definitely not all have a timegrapher. This needs further looking into once it reaches the general rep population we will know what the real deal is and how bad the time keeping characteristics of the movement is. Thanks and great write up, keep up the good work!!!!!

Thanks M! When timekeeping (rate) is involved the gear train usually has no influence. It is caused by the power supply (barrel) and power release (balance). So yes, the gear train is designed completely different than the gen but in my opinion that has nothing to do with the bad iso.

PS: still running for 94h now....

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At a guess I would say this movement is very much still protected by copyright. I don't imagine it was designed solely for the rep market so it will be going to many legitimate companies and watches.

As a result I can't imagine we will see anything closer or better than we have until they have shifted a couple of million movements.

But then again, I could be talking out of my ass :)

Does anyone know what the movement is actually called, I would like to get hold of one (unbranded) for a project in class?

Also what are the dimensions of the movement, diameter & depth?

Thanks for your work fella's ;)

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106 Hours... Stil running at 237 amp and +60 s/day

PS: I think the rate gain will stabilise after some winds and the oils are distributed over the main spring coils. Like I said before. It is normal for a movement to speed up when the amp decreases. This clone p3000 does that a bit more than usual but the freshly oiled barrels could cause some uneven power distribution. Will keep monitoring it but this is such a great!!!!!! movement.

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This is interesting, the bad rate gain and loss of amplitude is due to the loss of torque as the spring unwinds, it is just one of those things we can attribute to phisics, maybe the gen does use some sort of torque converter, maybe the different size main springs have an effect. A fusee would compensate for the loss but that would have to be designed in from the start. I am assuming that this has a primary and secondary barrel, with the power to the train coming from one barrel and the secondary barrel feeding power to that rather than two barrels feeding at the same time (due to the high torque that would cause)

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