Smab Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hello dear fellow members. It is possible this has been posted in earlier threads, but I feel I must tell you the result of my investigations, it was really a coincidence. As the most strange thing happended, my BP DSSD with the cheapest movment option "A2813 Hibeat new breed 25j movement) - When I picked it up the other day, the HE valve had fallen out!. I tried to put it back in, but it seems it will not get entirely into the hole. So I used the sticky tape ball and opened the freaking thing. Inside is the movement. This is also the same movement used in some of the cheapest models of SUB and other Rollies. It has replaced the earlier A2813 low-beat in some models. This is typically used in reps from a 100-150USD. My DSSD costs 218, but much, much cheaper than the ETA Asian Clone and Swiss ETA versions ranging about 400 USD. So, it is a very cheap movmement. The cheapest hibeat they use. If you have option for Asian2836 or Asian2824 clone, they are usually significantly more expencive. Then it came to my mind, it looked rather similar to something else I have been studying lately. The movement of my BP PO Ceramic. I ordered and paid for swiss ETA 2836, but got the Asian Clone 2836. I could tell from the movement, since the watch has crystal caseback, and you don't have to open it to see the movement. Ok, so people are telling me I should keep the watch, get it serviced or something, and maybe ask for a refund. I got something less than I paid for. But, it seems it is much worse. This Asian clone 2836 they claim to be using in the BP Ceramic, is not an 2836 clone. It is the cheapy A2813 hibeat, as used in watches from 100-150USD and up! Same [censored], it is almost impossible to get it into the time change mode (crown is somewhat stuck in the first mode, date change mode), and one has to attempt many times before it clicks out into the time change mode. So, I paid 368USD + freight for a A2813 hibeat, a movement costing something like 30-35USD??? To all of you guys getting the Asian Clone 2836 PO Ceramic, it is the crap movement they sell in the budget Rollies! I reckon the socalled swiss ETA is really the Asian Clone 2836 then, it looks more like an ETA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smab Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Here are the pics of the DSSD A2813 "new breed" hibeat 25j, and the PO Ceramic (BP) "A2836 clone". Only difference is the decorated rotor and the 8500 decorations on the movement holder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hi Smab, you're right: http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=79493 The screws for the dial feet are a clear indicator Have you contacted the seller of the PO? And can you share with us who is him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smab Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hello there, GenTLe. I got in touch with the dealer once I received the watch, as it was a different movement then the "swiss ETA" on the dealers pictures. Should have seen it on the QC pics, but it was not what I was looking for, I didn't know the differene visually either at the moment. First thing to look out for, is the center in the rotor ball bearing. The claimed swiss has a golden center. So does the ETA clones from the known Hangzhou and Seagull i.e.. but this thing, it has a silver center. Also the different regulator fork and different shock spring for the balance. I then reckon I got the Asian clone 2836, the dealer told me to ship it back. Since I paid and ordered the swiss.. But later, as I saw the momement on the budget DSSD, I noticed it was very much the same, besides the decorated rotor and markings on the PO. Then I realized they are selling BP PO with claimed Asian clone 2836, but really use the cheapest hibeat available in models from a little more than 100 usd. And the asian PO ceramic sells for more than 300 USD! Probably they use the same movement in other models also, I also saw the tread on RWI. Since the dealer wants to sort things out, I will not blame him. It is the same model they sell at the cartel dealers. I guess all BP watches with claimed A2836 clone can have this crap movement, it is much, much cheaper than the actual asian clones, as seen from Hangzhou and Sea-Gull. Since a lot of fellow members seems to belive it is better to stick with the asian option, to get a new movement, that can be quite good, I feel it is esential to learn the difference between a "good" asian 2836/2824 clone and the cheap models. Noone that is interested in keeping a good rep for some time, wants the A2813 hibeat, it has numerous issues, and it is a very cheap movement, not like the actual asian ETA clones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smab Posted June 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I've checked around - you can get this same movement in the Explorer I 36mm with superlume 1:1 dimensions and free freight, at 158USD... The BP Ceramic A2836 "clone" should have been 100USD less than it is currently sold for, with this movement. Approx 200-220USD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 You're right Smab, this is actually the reason I'm purchasing now from 2 sellers only, ToroBravo and Sead (Supermirrors), because they both looks a bit less of typical sellers and a bit more into the watches (especially Sead that, if I got it right, is also a modder; but also TB which is in the luxury chinese brands as well). They're definitively not cheap but if this means to be sure to have good mechanics and custom seizure protection then I'm ok. Maybe they could compensate the fact that they spend more time in the quality checks with the fact that they spend less time on their website (Sead even doesn't have one at all)... Don't know if this has any sense anyway. I'm simply interested only into dealers that respect their words (i.e. don't say "Yes I probably have that model" and then "Ops, it's not available anymore" after you paid - or "Yes I'll send you TimeGrapher QC picture" and then not sending them) and that provide good and reliable pieces. Back to your case: instead of sending back the watch, isn't possible to have only the correct calibre paying the shipping costs only? Well, providing the case, hands etc will fit in the new movement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 The one I see in the pictures is the high-beat 21j, not the high-beat a2813(aka miyota clone) two different movements. The high beat takes eta hands and dials, whereas, the a2813 doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helmet993 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Is this in the Titanium model you posted about? Those are advertised as swiss eta only! Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smab Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 This is the Ti Liquid Metal model. Available both with Swiss ETA and "Asian 2836 clone" and both 45,5 and 42mm now available. The cartel dealers among others, sell them. This is made by the BP factory, as far as I know. The Noob PO is not available in Ti as of yet. The Asian clone PO is approx 60USD less than the swiss and sells for a little over 300USD. But, sadly, the Asian clone model is not a true 2836 clone, it is a "2813 New Breed Highbeat 28.800", as seen in the budget Rollies selling at about 150USD and up. The budget Rollies is advertised as "2813 highbeat", whereas the PO is advertised as "Asian 2836 clone". Both the price and the text should speak for a true Asian 2836 clone, but is not. As seen in different treads here and at RWG.bz, it does not have a true 1:1 fit with the ETA hands and stem etc. Also the dial feet is screws, while the Asian 2836 clone and swiss ETA has dial clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProMariner Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Actually it is not a 2813 but a CH8836 which is a clone of the Asian clone A2836-2 which is also a clone of the ETA .. Lol It is high beat and parts are interchangeable, and it is 25j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Actually it is not a 2813 but a CH8836 which is a clone of the Asian clone A2836-2 which is also a clone of the ETA .. Lol It is high beat and parts are interchangeable, and it is 25j Finally a name with a sense. Here between the 21j, the 2813, the dg2813, the 2813 new breed and the dg2813 high beat it in becoming a REAL mess!!! Any way I've seen in another thread that this clone of clone isn't interchangeable with eta or Asian eta: the rotor hole is bigger, the underneath parts different too, and looks like the hours hand is too lose :/:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProMariner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) Finally a name with a sense. Here between the 21j, the 2813, the dg2813, the 2813 new breed and the dg2813 high beat it in becoming a REAL mess!!! Any way I've seen in another thread that this clone of clone isn't interchangeable with eta or Asian eta: the rotor hole is bigger, the underneath parts different too, and looks like the hours hand is too lose :/:(Actually I had two cheap high beat movement in my watches, I had once a 1680 red sub with a CH8836 (clone of the A2836-2): hands are interchangeable with the ETA 2836 by the way .. Link:http://www.allwatchparts.com/-Chinese-Automatic-8836-Mechanical-Movement_p_921.html And I had a DG2813-2 from seagull (you know with the colored gears and it quick set the date clockwise) which was gold plated, and high beat 28800bph. This movement was inside my 5513 meters firs dial: You can see in my QC pics that both are at 28800bph. The real dg2813 is the seagull/nanning one, the other movement that we all know as a miyota clone with hacking fonction which looks like this: Is a different cheap movement and a clone of the miyota 8215, it doesn't set the date the same way and the dial feet position are different. And it only exist in low beat: 21600bph The DG2813 can exist in two version: Low beat at 21600bph like my BP 114060 And high beat DG2813-2 in gold plated like the previous picture inside my 5513 ! Hope this will help you ! Edited June 18, 2014 by ingelero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dazza Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Actually it is not a 2813 but a CH8836 which is a clone of the Asian clone A2836-2 which is also a clone of the ETA .. Lol It is high beat and parts are interchangeable, and it is 25j Just to confirm the movement shown by the OP is NOT a CH8836 and parts are NOT interchangeable with the ETA 2836-2 or true Chinese 2836-2 Clone movements. It is the new breed 25J which I think are pretty unreliable and with no parts available and hands that arent compatible with the ETA 2836-2 (I think the hour hand is too big from what I can recall) they are ready to throw out when they go pop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProMariner Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Just to confirm the movement shown by the OP is NOT a CH8836 and parts are NOT interchangeable with the ETA 2836-2 or true Chinese 2836-2 Clone movements. It is the new breed 25J which I think are pretty unreliable and with no parts available and hands that arent compatible with the ETA 2836-2 (I think the hour hand is too big from what I can recall) they are ready to throw out when they go pop! The OP has definitely a CH8836, mine died on my 1680 and I swapped it with another CH8836 that I bought from watch parts.com and I also used ETA hand, they uses the same hand size trust me. But concerning parts I am not sure they are all interchangeable but from my experience: same hand size and same size movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dazza Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 The OP has definitely a CH8836, mine died on my 1680 and I swapped it with another CH8836 that I bought from watch parts.com and I also used ETA hand, they uses the same hand size trust me. But concerning parts I am not sure they are all interchangeable but from my experience: same hand size and same size movement From what I can gather the OPs movement uses screws to hold on the dial and the CH8836 doesnt it used the clamps like the ETA and its clones: http://www.allwatchparts.com/-Chinese-Automatic-8836-Mechanical-Movement_p_921.html If yours didnt use the screws to hold the dial in place it wasnt the same movement as OPs. The is a thread on RWI where guys have tried to swap the 25J new breed movement and hands with a clone ETA and they had hand fitting issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szweth Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 FdaaaassszzzO,l,.jbbvv. .......KL ccdxvbbv. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk八 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitmic Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 FdaaaassszzzO,l,.jbbvv. .......KL ccdxvbbv. Wut? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 八 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Actually it is not a 2813 but a CH8836 which is a clone of the Asian clone A2836-2 which is also a clone of the ETA .. Lol It is high beat and parts are interchangeable, and it is 25j Thanks for the actual name, do you have a link to that reference? As to parts being interchangeable, I have found the following are not interchangeable.. Stem Rotor/bearing Auto wind Bridge Date wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 The CH8836 is different from the first movement shown in the BP DSSD. The slot for the stem release is different and the number of ridges on the auto wind bridge are different just with a quick glance at the two. Plus the price of the CH8836 is about equal to the Seagull and Hangzhou clone movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 The CH8836 is different from the first movement shown in the BP DSSD. The slot for the stem release is different and the number of ridges on the auto wind bridge are different just with a quick glance at the two. Plus the price of the CH8836 is about equal to the Seagull and Hangzhou clone movements. Ah bugger, I thought for a minute we had a decisive name for this new breed high beat POS movement for a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Checked allwatchparts, and the CH8836 they have listed has dial feet clamps/hooks not screws like this high beat 2813. CH8836 by Micky.!, on Flickr So we can rule that out then. Really need to nail this name down for this latest POS movement TD's/factories are putting into reps and changing a packet for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Really need to nail this name down for this latest POS movement TD's/factories are putting into reps and changing a packet for. That's it if you ask me. The "pos clone". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Agree, we shall call it the POS Clone from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Sorry guys, here in IT the only thing a "POS" is, looks like this: What the heck "POS" means in your language? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 POS = Piece Of [censored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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