robpatte Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Hey Everyone I'm looking for a bit of advice about a watch I received today after purchasing it from a RWG member. He's had 100% feedback so far (12 sales I think), so I reckoned he's be a good guy to deal with. He was selling a B&R BR01-92. Had a few pictures of it, not super high resolution but okay. He said the watch had a few scratches down one side, came with a leather strap and a rubber rep strap. Wanted £114 for it. I did a bit of research, looked at various rep dealers and thought I knew what to look for. I asked the seller for some extra info on the watch, mods, movement, age and water resistance etc. He gave a link to a rep site and said this would have all my answers. It seemed reasonable to assume that this was where the watch originally came from. Everything seemd to check out so I paid (Paypal gift) and the watch turned up today. First, the rubber strap was split so badly it was unwearable. Two massive (almost halfway across) splits across the strap. Second, the hex screws were laser etched on the back, not real screws. This is not a problem in itself, but he originally directed me to Perfect Clones selling a different rep, and insinuated that this was the watch I was buying. That's just plain dishonest. Thirdly, when the crown is pulled out to adjust the time the dial shifts a couple of millimetres in the direction of the pull. Then when pushing back in, it does the same. It seems the internal workings of the watch are loose. Does this seem normal? Am I expecting too much here? Shouldn't that be mentioned in the listing? When I messaged him about these issues, he said the watch was fine when he sent it. He admitted that the link he sent was wrong, but is now implying that I have tampered with the watch. I asked for either a refund, or a partial refund once I had someone look at repairing the crown/dial movement. He refused both, claiming that I have a faulty watch, and I'm trying to swap/scam him. I obviously have very little feedback cause I've only been a member for a few weeks, but I feel like I've been mugged. I'm not new to watch ownership, I have some very nice genuine pieces (Rolex, Omega, Tudor), but really like the idea of test driving my next gen purchase by buying and wearing a few replicas. But this experience, and the beligerence of the seller has put me right off. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have records of our pm conversations and photos his sale listing, and the watch I received. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcardoza Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 PM one of the mods and ask them to intervene on your behalf. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I may be flamed for this, but I believe that the watch was substantially misrepresented by the seller. It's very difficult to imagine that the movement came loose, although it's possible. The website link was in my estimation a definite deception, why send someone to a website that shows a much better quality watch than what is being sold. I believe that we are going to have to take a much more proactive position as to policing the sales areas. mistakes can happen, but it is incumbent on the seller to represent the watch, strap, part, etc. as accurately as possible. Being a raw nob, you were pretty easy to take advantage of, which is not all your fault. Older more experienced members should try to make sure a new member is aware of the condition of a sales item, not use that as an opportunity to take advantage of their ignorance. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I may be flamed for this, but I believe that the watch was substantially misrepresented by the seller. It's very difficult to imagine that the movement came loose, although it's possible. The website link was in my estimation a definite deception, why send someone to a website that shows a much better quality watch than what is being sold. I believe that we are going to have to take a much more proactive position as to policing the sales areas. mistakes can happen, but it is incumbent on the seller to represent the watch, strap, part, etc. as accurately as possible. Being a raw nob, you were pretty easy to take advantage of, which is not all your fault. Older more experienced members should try to make sure a new member is aware of the condition of a sales item, not use that as an opportunity to take advantage of their ignorance. I agree 100% and That's my biggest gripe with the forum. Once you buy, it sure seems like you're mostly on your own. Mike On a Bike seems to be taking on a lot of responsibility lately and maybe things are getting better. I love the knowledge base here but unfortunately there has never seemed to be much moderation on sales. The first and only watch that I bought on this site was one of the worst buying experience of my watch collecting hobby. But back to your problem. The only thing you can do at this point is probably name and shame the seller and leave him negative feedback. Maybe he'll have the cajones to show up and explain his side of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droptopman Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Sorry to hear about this. Especially for a new member. Always amazes me what some will do for a few bucks. This is such a great hobby and forum but a bad experience like this can ruin it for someone and turn them away. I hope you find a resolution and I hope you stick around. I have met some really great people here and learned so much from the members. Sent from my droptop using telepathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyyammine Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 If your going to send a link of a watch it better be the same exact one. The fact that he said he sent you the wrong link should entitle you to your money back. It's also on you to ask for a actual picture if your serious about a watch and not a sample of someone's website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Hi, if the situation is as portrayed seller maybe could have handled it better but than we´re "only" talking about $188 usd here. Why send as a gift in the first place - just pay 4% more and done. Rep-strap: these sometimes are so bad they just come apart if You have them lying around for a while. Get a nice strap for the watch from +- $18 watchbandcenter.com The moving dial is just a simple fix - unscrew/open the back in a dustfree environment and with a screwdriver tighten the 2 screws holding the movement, it´s really simple, no previous knowledge needed, sometimes new ones may arrive like that. Buy a watch repair toolkit from ebay or amazon for some $15 to $20 USD as well, always comes in handy. This is just to give You a thumbsup, try to enjoy the watch and take it as some learning money, much worse is to buy a $400 + shipping latest, ultimate model with a misaligned pearl, bad lume application and uncentered rehaut engravings with markers falling off. Edited August 26, 2014 by Nightwatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Wow Nightwatch. I guess you are suggesting that we should all just accept anything that comes in the mail and either fix it ourselves or enjoy it as a project to fix since it's OK to send a piece of crap to another member? Somehow that just doesn't sit right with me. Hope I'm misreading you, and call me old fashioned but I don't accept your premise at all. I know that I and lots of others could probably fix it and move on. But a lot of others can't and shouldn't be expected to be watch smiths every time they buy a watch from M2M sales. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcardoza Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 The QA process will never improve if we don't press the TD's to make it so! Silence is acceptance......... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Wow Nightwatch. I guess you are suggesting that we should all just accept anything that comes in the mail and either fix it ourselves or enjoy it as a project to fix since it's OK to send a piece of crap to another member? Somehow that just doesn't sit right with me. Hope I'm misreading you, and call me old fashioned but I don't accept your premise at all. I know that I and lots of others could probably fix it and move on. But a lot of others can't and shouldn't be expected to be watch smiths every time they buy a watch from M2M sales. Op has 2 posts, this was the second and as I understand very first rep-watch. . Would like to hear the other part before giving an opinion and was just trying to give some help on really simple to fix issues. Posting a link to another watch by the seller (if its the case) is by no means a correct attitude. But a 100% positive feedback on 12 sales is also normally not given for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I am working on this but first off never send via gift eat the 4% if it is a net sale. Read that sales thread a lot of red flags most of the guys were waiting for pics:explanations/ scratches:lume, be wary gents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbaria Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Hopefully, you'll help get this sorted...the noob didn't threaten a pp dispute and stated his case well, also didn't name and shame, so he's doing things correctly and that's refreshing to see...With the current band of noobs(boobs) at RWI the op by now would have alerted the FBI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatte Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Thanks for all the advice everyone. I posted here just to guage if my expectations were unreasonable, and thanks to your responses I am feeling that I was simply naive and the seller exploited this. As Mike on a Bike noted, there were a few red flags on his listing, ones that a noob like me wouldn't have spotted. Things like his not replying to other interested members very specific questions about the lume quality. I guess I just got burned by a pro, and it serves to note that even 12 positive feedback does not mean you care about what you're selling. As a further note, I got out the strap again to have another look this morning. Not only was it unwearable but it had a black PVD buckle. The watch was stainless steel. He said it was fine when he sent it. In which case I have a tupperware box when can PVD coat stainless steel. That's gotta be worth something!! R 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 The QA process will never improve if we don't press the TD's to make it so! Silence is acceptance......... You're right mate.... But here we're writing about a M2M sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martijnp Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Very sorry to hear this, luckely Mike is on this so I hope you can work this out with the seller. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Attempting to resolve........................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droptopman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I was interested in this piece for a friend but as stated seller never answered questions or posted more pics. I could easily be in the same position as the op here as I almost bought it anyway. Hopefully Moab will find a resolution. Sent from my droptop using telepathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatte Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Wow Droptopman That was a close call for you. If you still want it, I'm open to sensible offers :-D R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droptopman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Funny.....not positive it's the same sales post but sounds like it. I just hope your not too discouraged. We all go through some growing pains in this hobby but in the end it's a great place. Sent from my droptop using telepathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatte Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Just checked. Yep, you asked about the lume. For the record it seems pretty weak. And green, I believe the gens are blue (but I could be mistaken on this). My comparisons are a Noob Pam372 and a gen SMP. These lumes are really bright, the lume on the B&R is pretty weak beside these. Certainly not 'amazing' as the seller was claiming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 if the watch was working and you had a good rubber strap would you be satisfied with keeping it? Sucks to hear this, and the trained eye will come with time. If you want to keep it I can probably get you a rubber strap from one of my suppliers. It will be unbranded as I don't sell rep stuff, I sell straps & accessories. I'm a TD on two of the sister forums. I think you can tighten the movement tabs yourself, its super easy. Do it sooner rather than later so you dont risk chipping any dial paint. If you want to go that route, I'll send you the strap no charge. Hope that helps a bit, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 The movement on this seems to be just held by a plastic movement holder so what I said before about tightening screws does not apply on this special built, here´s how to open it: http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=4685 Checked it out a bit and there is no lume on the 01-92 and the screws are printed. Members send it off for re-luming. Seen the better model with screws go for $400 used on m2m with some straps. Great offer from Dan Migliore:) if it can´t be sorted in another way with Mike´s help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatte Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Hey everyone Had a breakthrough yesterday. Seller has offered a refund. Possibly a chat with MoaB convinced him (I am in your debt my friend). Thanks for all your advice, and thankyou Daniel (P4GTR) for the offer of a replacement strap and for all the offers of help fixing the dial movement issue. I'm sure one day the time will come for me to open a watch and make an embarrassing mess of the insides, but for today I'm gonna take the money !-D In the end, this has turned out to be a really positive experience. Getting involved in the group, albeit to sort out a dispute, has convinced me that it's a good place to hang around. I'll be back, old and smarter. And once I get my loot returned I'll be on the hunt for a good B&R rep. Advice welcome! R 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyyammine Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I am working on this but first off never send via gift eat the 4% if it is a net sale. Read that sales thread a lot of red flags most of the guys were waiting for pics:explanations/ scratches:lume, be wary gents. I dealt with plenty of guys on here that have sold pp gift. I also only will sell with pp gift. Thats one of the reasons i only sell on here. I have a very good business and I don't need any type of headache. My pp account will get shut down. if someone isn't sure about a purchase don't buy it. There are plenty of watches. I will continue to deal with pp gift as I never have anyone any reason to worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Tony just get a second for rep affairs maybe. I would have no problem gifting you along w/ a bunch of guys but being a 1-2 post noob I think not buying gift a good idea on the flip side who going to sell to you, always tough starting out. A reasonable seller and a buyer who did not over react gave us a positive outcome here not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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