So the watch market is mostly a charade. Most of them don't make their own machinery!

[Lacuadra]

As you can tell, I have a long way to go as far as watches and education.

 

To my dismay, and after chatting with a lovely ( and good looking rep of a well known brand), I was informed that Hublot, Breitling, Tag don't make their own machinery. They outsource this area to the Swatch team, that  basically mass produce them. Correct me if I am interpreting it incorrectly.

 

Quite honestly, I left so disappointed, and hope I am wrong.  However,  it looks like she is right, from what I have read.  What is the point of spending lots of money to get a semi-luxury watch?  I thought that the essence of a watchmaker was the machinery itself, even if this  was mass produced. At least it was designed and built in house.  

 

I guess only  true luxury brands are the only ones that make their own stuff.  On the flip side, I feel much better and upbeat as a newbie in the replica world.   Maybe we are getting what we should be paying for, after all.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Lacuadra

[kernow]

With the likes of Rolex, Omega, Brietling etc - the mid range brands, you're paying for their marketing and sponsorship of sportsmen. Yes, they're nice watches when compared to Pulsar, Invicta etc and there are a lot of development costs but many of these brands are owned by the likes of the Swatch Group/ETA. I expect she was talking about the movement being a generic ETA movement. Well that's not a bad thing as they are cheap and readily available. Alternatively, just buy a good rep for 1/10th the price of a gen!

[Beachcomber]

"Rolex is a nice watch compared to a Pulsar." Love it, quote of the week.

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[gemballa]

Are you taking about the machinery required to manufacture the watches or the movement itself?

[Fracture]

Weird post is weird. They most likely use the same drills in the Ford factory as they do in the Rolls Royce factory. Does that make them equal products? They're just tools.

[tframo]

I think he's referring to the movements. In house vs eta

[Beachcomber]

Rolex and Omega make their own movements,, so with this logic they cannot be grouped with the others. Yes we pay for marketing, but isn't that with any luxury item, I can tell you that if Rolex stopped marketing tomorrow their watches would still sell just as well, the brand sells itself. Maybe I'm not understanding your post, because you are grouping ETA with in house movements.

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[508-Fanatic]

In-house movements is where it's at... everything/anything else is a rip-off if it's over a threshold of say $1,500 unless there's some crazy decoration or whatever / gold etc... even then, you are buying a timepiece, and to me the beating heart matters most.

[jpz5142]

"Rolex is a nice watch compared to a Pulsar." Love it, quote of the week.

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Well the saying that has been said before that Rolex makes the most expensive $500 watch... In the end Rolex is a mass produced watch with a mass produced movement. There has been many comparisons between the 3135 and the 2892, which is in my Victorinox DM 500, and the conclusion is both are very good movements. IMHO if movement experts can't declare an overwhelming difference between a mass produced in house movement and a mass produced outsourced movement then it's a draw, especially if there is over 5 time price difference (Considering the price on the street of a 3135 at about $2000 and the 2892 at $350)

Rolex and Omega make their own movements,, so with this logic they cannot be grouped with the others.

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Rolex does yes, bu AFAIK Omega still requires significant support from other ETA subsidiaries to make their movements. The 8500 was designed by Omega but they had to get significant support in the production from Nivarox and ETA, the CEO publicly said he wouldnt call it an in house because of the help from outside of Omega.

Just my opinion, but the magical appeal of companies (not just watch industry, I'm comparing the cycling industry also) using in house components is that it is an excellent way to muddy the water as far as the consumer being able to do price comparison. If the comparison is not easy for the consumer then it is far easier for the consumer to be duped by the "marketing" efforts of the company. Marketing is a way for a company to get the consumer to pay a premium for the intangible.

[Fracture]

Rolex does yes, bu AFAIK Omega still requires significant support from other ETA subsidiaries to make their movements. The 8500 was designed by Omega but they had to get significant support in the production from Nivarox and ETA, the CEO publicly said he wouldnt call it an in house because of the help from outside of Omega.

I've always considered it in-house as Omega and ETA are both owned by Swatch.

[jpz5142]

I've always considered it in-house as Omega and ETA are both owned by Swatch.

Well I'd say yes and no. ETA SA is under no obligation to comply with Omega's requests for movement production unless The Swatch Group tells ETA to do so compared with Rolex who has 100% autonomy over production doing what design tells them to do... The analysis being like Cadillac doing what Buick tells them to do. Subsidiaries have no control over another subsidiary unless the parent holding company tells them to comply.

[kbh]

Swatch Group brands

Breguet, Harry Winston, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega, Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte, Tissot, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton, Calvin Klein watches + jewelry, Swatch, Flik Flak.

Swatch Group production companies

ETA, Nivarox-FAR, François Golay, Comadur, Rubattel et Weyermann, MOM Le Prélet,  Universo, Manufacture Ruedin, Simon Et Membrez, Lascor, Novi, Swatch Group Assembly, DYB, EM Microelectronic, Renata, Micro Crystal and Swiss Timing.

 

 

 

Swatch Group, Wikipedia:

Brands

 

Hamilton Khaki Field Officer H70615133

 

Swatch Once Again

Watches and Jewelry^[4]

Prestige and Luxury Range

• Breguet
• Harry Winston
• Blancpain
• Glashütte Original
• Jaquet Droz
• Léon Hatot
• Omega

High Range

• Longines
• Rado
• Union Glashütte

Middle Range

• Tissot
• Balmain
• Certina
• Mido
• Hamilton
• CK Watch and Jewelry co.

Basic Range

• Swatch
• Flik Flak

Private label

• Endura

Sports timing

• Swiss Timing (represents different brands of the above)

Movement and component sales

Swatch subsidiary ETA Manufacture Horlogere, which is based in Grenchen, Switzerland, furnishes many OEM brands, such as LVMH, which markets TAG Heuer, Hublot and Zenith watch lines, and Richemont, which markets amongst others, Baume & Mercier, IWC, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Officine Panerai, Piaget SA and Vacheron Constantin.^[5]

[panerai153]

My feelings are that to qualify for an in -house movement, it has to be just that. Rolex qualifies although it is still a mass produced movement. If you build a million watchers a year and they are powered by 3-4 different movements then to me that is mass production. Then there are the high end companies that produce thousands a year like Patek, Breguet and progressing down in number but up in price are the small boutique watch companies that produce in the hundreds a year. If it's a movement that is used in several to scores of different companies' watches, no matter how much you add to it in the form of decoration and embellishments, the base unit is still a mass produced non exclusive movement. Comparing movements, I agree the high end mass produced movements are just as good and sometimes better than the in house movements available today. And when you factor in the cost of service, which is approaching the size of car down payment in a lot of the higher end watches, the good old ETA keeps looking better and better.

We could argue endlessly the  price/value ratio of the midrange to low high end  watches, like Rolex. Personally, I have always liked Rolex, from the days many years ago when I owned one watch, and Air King. Soon replaced by and early Datejust and then a Submariner. Way back in the late 1960's!! Are they overpriced? Probably. But considering how they hold their value, one can buy one and wear it for 20 years and provided it hasn't been trashed, it could be sold for more than what you paid for it new. Certainly can't say the same for a lot of watch brands out there today.

[akdfnsls]

Gracias treladan !!!! esas cosas emocionan !!

[Fracture]

Gracias treladan !!!! esas cosas emocionan !!

 

This is an english board. I'm not a native english speaker either but, perhaps make an effort?

[porschespeedster]

^^^ i support the idea of people occasionally expressing themselves in languages other than English.

Some things cannot be translated.

 

Now, posting whole articles in other languages...thats just confusing...but let the homie exclaim sometimes!

[porschespeedster]

I also have to say my GF only speaks Swedish to me while we're in bed.

I speak English with some Spanish and a very small amount of German.

I don't mind in the slightest.

[Lacuadra]

May I assume, you all have been avid collectors and have a good knowledge of the whole watch industry.  

 

But I am so new, I see myself as the average consumer who thinks that all of the $$$ we pay 

is mostly due to exclusivity and craftmanship.  I guess we the uneducated ones envision an experienced swiss watchmaker who has worked with delicacy and accuracy on our "precious aqcuisition" 

Dream on Louie..

 

Honestly, the last thing the average consumer imagines is that all those pricey watches are nothing but mass produced pieces with movements made by none other than  ....Swatch Co.!!   

 

True Luxury watches have now become fully, fully aspirationals from my point of view.  

 

PS I just got my new PAMmie from PT, will review soon.  

[Lacuadra]

This is an english board. I'm not a native english speaker either but, perhaps make an effort?

 

 

I speak Spanish fluently but have no idea who "terledan" is , or the referred things that give him so much joy.  In other words, no clue what he/she said. Lost in more than Translation....