automatico Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 And the end of an eta...It looks like the swatch group (aka the snatch grope) may be going to cut off all common eta movements and parts to 'non account holders' after 12-31-15...http://watchguy.co.uk/swatch-group-parts-policy/But they will still overhaul your $25 quartz eta 955.xxx for only $415. Plus $hipping and fondling. Relax, it's all Ok as long as Hattori does not cut off supplies of the PC21 and Miyota keeps cranking out the 2030.I guess my next Frankenstein 5513 will have a PC 21... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Its been on the cards for quite a while now, and there's many petitions about online to ask them to reconsider. The likes of myself, and other independent Service Providers, and Watchmakers are really screwed by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 So what does this mean for the rest of us? Do we need to use eta clones or what should we do when starting a new build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Sadly it means you and I will either have to cough up the extortionate price hikes, or indeed go for clones. Swiss ETA Movement Pricehike by Micky Aldridge, on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 So, this would mean repair parts as well? Seems they would be stepping on a few laws in various countries by selling a product and denying the end user repair parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propofol Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Prices of ETAs are going to increase incredibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlf Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Oh crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Lucky for me I have managed to buy 10 new ETA movements recently before the price hikes, and yes JMB, repair prices will increase, and increase more over time once stocks have run out completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 I can see how they would be able to refuse selling movements (stupid) but it doesn't seem legal to cut off repair parts to support product that has already been sold! I have used clones for several years but fix them with "gen" parts, guess I'll have to start buying clone parts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Sh#t. After almost 8 years in this world I was finally about to actually turn this obsession into a real hobby by tinkering with parts and starting some real builds over the winter. Seriously, I just finished buying various tools and I was going to buy a base watch in December to start practicing with it and modding it over the holidays. Does this mean I have to either go 21j with vintage builds or do they make any clones of low beat ETA 2846 movements? Some of the base watches I've been scouting out come with clone 2836 or 2824 and I was going to try to find a 2846 to replace it with. Edited October 29, 2015 by Mendota Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 There are other options for you, 2846 movements come up often, and used ETA movements, these can be either good once serviced, or stripped down for parts to bring back to life other ETA movements. Myself and other modders can convert the likes of a 2824/2836/34 to low beat using 2846 balance, escapement, and pallet fork. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub007 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Just had my 1967 Omega Constellation (inherited from my late grandfather) fully serviced by a very well respected Dutch (independent) Omega Watchmaker....total cost was $300 which included a new crown and plexi!!! When I look at the recommended price list of Omega this should cost $675 just for service and spare parts would be calculated at whatever price they see fit. So at least another $100 this would mean a grand total of $775 ....Check here for entire pricelist...http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=threadt&frm_id=25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Looks like I'll be buying more old watches to pull the movement out of, though competition will go up on those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 My guess is that it is not as bad as it seems...yet. As time goes by, eta movements and parts will go up quite a bit, especially if they really do cut parts off for the 2824/36, 2892, 7750, and 6497. One thing that will ease the shock for us is maybe using clone movements on projects but from what I have seen their failure rate is around 25% and parts are pricey on eBay considering a complete movement goes for $75 or so. As for clone parts, the only place I have seen clone parts is eBay when looking at swiss eta 28xx parts.http://www.ebay.tv/sch/i.html?_sop=1&_nkw=eta+2836+movement&_frs=1Imho Citizen really missed the boat when they made the affordable and reliable 9015...they should have made it with the same dial foot holes, crown/date position, and hand sizes as the eta 28xx. I am not high on Sellita and Valanvron clones as I would just bite the bullet and use an eta at this point in time.I have seen up close what happened with rolex parts from being able to get parts from most USA supply houses for 25+ years to all of a sudden rolex closing off all parts to supply houses. Next, rolex allowed parts accounts to a select few independent repair shops if they met certain requirements. Next, they closed almost all of the parts accounts off making many parts prices jump 400% or more. Example...I needed a 'balance stop spring 8115' for a 1570 a few weeks ago and they were between $40USD used to $138 (!!) new on eBay. Luckily I found one I bought when we had a parts account and it was marked $8 and that was the price we charged a customer if we put one in their watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 who cares. other swiss manufacturers have stepped up to fill the market demand. Sellita is good enough for other high grade swiss brands. these high beat miyota movements are also pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 When I first started using clones I had about a 25% failure rate like Auto mentioned. Over the past year or so I have seen a marked improvement in quality and finish and about the only issues I've had lately (mechanically) has been set-levers in the keyless. About the only thing that hasn't been improved is cleanliness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 New clone movement prices have increased slightly recently too. No idea why my text was small above ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Are sellita and miyota movements, as well as the hands, easy to get? How about positioning dials? Do we need to clip the feet to use those? How do we know which one is a direct replacement for a specific ETA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Are sellita and miyota movements, as well as the hands, easy to get? How about positioning dials? Do we need to clip the feet to use those? How do we know which one is a direct replacement for a specific ETA?sellita are direct replacements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 sellita are direct replacementsThanks. Is there any kind of reference chart or guide that shows which ETA calibers are equal to which Sellita calibers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 This thing with Swatch has been going on for a long time. If they had gotten their way, ETAmovements would have been completely removed from sale several years back. The Swiss watch authority stepped in and got the time rolled back. Looks like the string has run out and the removal of ETA's from general sales is almost upon us. There are some viable alternatives, Sellita, Myiota and Seagull all make good movements and are available. Lots of the smaller boutique watch manufacturers are already moving on to these alternative movements. I have a MKII GMT which is a homage to the Rolex 6542 on order and the owner says that it will be limited to 300 pieces because he bought 300 ETA 2893-2 movements, and he can't get more. He probably could, but the price would more than likely increase the price of the watch by several hundred dollars each. Since there are millions of watches out there with ETA movements there will still be plenty of older watches that can be cannibalized for movements, but I would expect that as the movement supply dries up and demand stays high, the prices will go up accordingly. It's all about supply and demand.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yep, I do remember this topic from a few years back.One may never be sure what will be lasting during decades in terms of supply, availability, etc.In recent services of my ETAs 2824s and 2783, prices have been quite high, as high as the price of the fresh new 2824 costed from Cousins in 2013. Sellita is a nice direct alternative, though not many known suppliers like Cousins list it (correct me if that has changed), price is also as close to an ETA as possible and at one point inherits ETA's politics. Then on the tech part clone or not, would we be able to use our ETA cannon pinions etc. on a Sellita? Miyota seems quite interesting as they have some GMT versions, hacking etc. But it is a different movement, what is the hands pinion size, stem compatibility with gen crowns, stem height and movement diameter compared to an ETA 2824. Lower beat Miyota movements alternatives? Dial feet position may be the least issue here. What if we need to change the cannon pinion height? Are there any higher cannon pinions available anywhere, saddly, higher grade hands like the ones from TC may not fit, then what would we be using instead?Recently saw that some dealer list a few watches with miyota movements, perhaps a newer trend? Then fitting parts may be somehow available if miyota's establish as a mass alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted November 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 All I could find on the Miyota 9015:11 1/2 ligne = 26.0mm24 jewels3.9mm thick (6.0mm thick from tip of second hand pinion to back side of winding rotor)hand hole sizes H = 1.52mm M = 1.0mm S = .17mm stem thread size is tap 10 same as eta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hologramet Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Thanks. Is there any kind of reference chart or guide that shows which ETA calibers are equal to which Sellita calibers?ETA 2824-2 = SW-200ETA 2836-2 = SW-220The rest.. I don't know... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 I've found that the main weak point, at least recently, that I have found in the clone movements is in the keyless. The clone set lever does not appear as robust (I hate that word because it seems to be a favorite term used by marketing wieners) as the ETA part and I often replace it with an ETA part. I just re-ordered this part from Startime and notice they now have a 5 piece limit on the set lever and yoke. This is on part, at least, that I don't want to have to use a clone part for in the future. Guess I'll order a few each time I place future Startime orders. Don't really know what this means, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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