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Actual "full" Rose Gold case on this new Calatrava 5227?!


hologramet

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Okay... Just saw this wonderful watch on puretime and the price 868 USD. Have I understood it correct that they claim 100% RG in the Watch head? Seems a bit cheap, no? I mean... at least 15-20 grams worth of 18K gold should be in there? That's almost the whole value of the asked price. Am I missing something?

http://puretime01.com/calatrava-5227-18k-rose-gold-white-dial-on-black-leather-strap-miyota-9015.html#

pp2016030801-01.thumb.jpg.3e0be3394771ed

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  • 2 weeks later...

@GWP123 I Sure we are talking about a thicker gold plating here, and not 78% gold. Do the math. It would be a lot more expensive at the current gold price. 50 gr of gold is around 2000 usd, so this would be a steal. 

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There was a discussion on the general discussion forum about this watch. According to Mymanmatt, it is gold wrapped which is the same technique that Rolex used on some of their gold watches in the 69's and 70's.

Much more durable than gold plating.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The old rolex 1550, 15505 etc had solid gold bezels and about 80 to 100 microns of gold in the cap on the case. They will go 25+ years without wear through or until some Bozo gouges or polishes through it. The plated case in question otoh probably does not have a lot of gold on it and I do not get the '78%' either...maybe 78 microns? That would be Ok. The USA standard for 'gold filled' was/is 1/20 gold by weight = 5% gold (GF = a LOT more than average gold plating) and there is not much gold on a gold filled case if you melt it off.

A genuine cartier 'vermeil' tank watch is 20 microns gold plating over Sterling silver and they will last for quite a few years but they do not have many sharp edges. The average gold plated Raymond Weil, Movado etc may have 10 micron plating and if it is 20 microns or more they will usually brag about it by marking the case somewhere...'20µ plaque' etc. Twenty (20) microns = 20/1000mm. Not a whole lot.

I have a 21 jewel automatic AP dress watch replica in a rose gold plate over stainless steel case and iirc they went for around $90...probably lightly plated though. I am skeptical of a plated replica for $800+, even with a MY 9015 in it, but that's just me. Otoh, if you really like the watch and the plating/overlay turns out to be a lot thicker than normal and lasts for 10 or 15 years, you would have no complaint.

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  • 1 month later...

My fellow brethren and sisteren,

I've been researching this for a few obsessive days.  Here are the facts (not unlike Avenger II Seawolf facts...Jebus, what a shitty watch.) on both gold plating and this particular model in question.

The first thing we need to realize is that sites such as PC and PT list gold plating levels in two forms of measurement: Mils and Microns - one is english, one is metric. Most models will list the gold plating levels in mils, and most decent reps claim that there is .5 mils of gold plating.  Using the chart below (which I have also hyperlinked), we can see that .5 mils is equivalent to, roughly, 12.5 microns...

http://artisanplating.com/measuring-layer-thickness-on-gold-plated-surfaces/

Screen Shot 2016-05-21 at 8.56.18 PM.png

 

This is the gold plating chart as required by United States commerce laws... 

 

Screen Shot 2016-05-21 at 8.57.57 PM.png

 

The watch in question claims that it has 25 to 30 microns of rose gold.  The video on the PC site shows Joshua using a Karatmeter to test the the purity and the level of plating on the watch.  The video shows that the gold is 78% pure (which is basically 18K) and that it has a thickness of 25 microns.  I exchanged emails with Joshua asking him to elaborate on the 78% claim, and he said that as the machine shows (?), the gold is 78% pure. This watch, as we have already discussed, is almost $900, shipped.  

I really hope Joshua isn't reading this - he has always been really good to me - because this is the thing...If you will notice on the PC site, there is another 18K rose gold calatrava, with the same movement and features, that costs only $308 and claims that it has .5 mils of gold plating - or, as we discussed, about 12.5 microns.  If you look at the photos on the site, as well as the QC photos, you will notice that the watch is basically THE EXACT SAME THING, just different photos.  The only difference is that the $308 version was released in April, and the $838 version was released in November.  Using our basic calculations from the chart above, the $308 version has 12.5 microns of plating (5x the amount to qualify for Heavy Gold Plating).  The $838 version has 25 microns of plating (10x the Heavy Gold Plating requirement), or twice as much gold as the lesser priced version.  So, for an extra $530, your are getting a extra layer of gold on your watch that is about as much as a thick coat of varnish.  

Let's put it this way, an older/vintage gen Rolex Oyster bracelet has hollow middle links made of 18k gold. There is about $600 worth of 18k gold in that bracelet - SOLID 18K gold.  With this $838 Calatrava, we are LUCKY if the extra 12.5 microns of gold plating that the dealers are claiming equates to about an extra gram to 1.5 grams of gold...or $40-$60.  Hmmmmm....This is why I recently ordered the $308 version :clap2:

As an addictive rep owner, and gen Rolex owner, I will not buy a rep over a certain $$$.  For me, that dollar amount hovers around $500-600, and it is reserved for only the rarest and most worth finds.  I usually stay in the $275-$400 range.  At a certain point, it just makes no sense to pay that much for a rep - just save for the real thing, you won't be disappointed!  Nearing $1000 for a rep straight out of the box is ludicrous.  Especially when this is the type of watch that you only strap on for special occasions.  If you wear a Patek on an everyday basis, and your name is not Charlie Sheen or John F. Kennedy, then you are a tool.  And if you are wearing a rep Patek at gatherings where there are people that can actually tell the difference, then you are an even bigger tool.  

The fact is, I just sold a TT sub that I purchased four years ago from Joshua, and in those four years, I wore the hell out of it.  However, the gold plating on the clasp - although worn - was still gold, showing no steel underneath.  It was advertised as .5 mils plating.  If I can have a sub with .5 mils plating last me several years in the spot where it gets worn out the most, then .5 mils should be enough for a rose gold Calatrava.  

My feeling is that the boys from China got themselves a new Karatmeter and are using it as they should - to try and maximize their profits.  They made an investment in their business, and they are hoping that is pays off...and I am sure that it will!  There will be plenty of people who don't read this post and who will shell out cash for the $838 version.  More power to them!!!  It's an outstanding gimmick for those who don't have research accumen.  I feel bad because "gimmick" is the word I used with Joshua when asking him about the machine and the model in question, and in his response he claimed, "It is no gimmick."  I'm sure he begrudgingly smiled, though, when he saw me order the lesser priced version :)

 

 

Screen Shot 2016-05-21 at 8.54.30 PM.png

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Genuine gold pateks sell high because of the brand name but other 'high grade' brands can often be purchased for bargain prices. A friend bought an 18k AP manual wind time only watch about a year ago for $250. Hard to beat (unless you need parts for it). I bought an 18k automatic (aka 'Ipsomatic') Gubelin in May 2009 for $200 and another one in Dec 2012 for $300, both in heavy 'waterproof' style cases. Also hard to beat. I do not wear them, I bought them because they were less than the gold is worth and are fine watches. I have a shoe box full of gold watches from the past 30+ years and have not sold them because many would be scrapped for the gold value because they are worth more for scrap gold than as a watch. I have a soft spot for Hamilton, Gruen, Elgin, Benrus, and Bulova and do not want to see them melted down. I do not see nearly as many gold watches now as before gold went crazy in 1980 ($850) and 2011 ($1895). It went down for a while but is up over $1270 now. 

How did I end up with a box of gold watches?  I have a few friends who buy gold and they let me know when something nice shows up.

Have a 14k 1950s heavy round snap back Bulova case with a Mickey Mouse dial and quartz Hattori (Seiko) two hand movement that I wear now and then. It has a 'Blue Sky' dial from a Disney MM watch ref number MU1100 and a MM crown with mouse ears on it. It gets more comments than any watch I ever had and it makes people smile.

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