meadowsweet_ Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 As I type this, Aurel Bacs and his merry men are wrapping up their weekend of auctions in Geneva, and most likely patting themselves on the back for a "job well done". At least, in their eyes anyways. (100% sales totaling over $25M on the first day alone. Sheesh...) Saturday's chrono-only "Start. Stop. Reset" auction produced some seriously crazy numbers, watches hammering at prices never seen before: a mere FIVE Daytons hammered in for a total north of $7.5 MILLION. That's right, millions. For five watches. In fact, only one vintage Daytona on the block hammered for less than six figures yesterday, so it doesn't seem like the Daytona bubble is bursting anytime soon. There's was the Paul Newman "Sotto" coming in at right under $2M: Or the (gorgeous) 6239 "Medical" and its silver dial with blue Pulsations scale: Or the star of yesterday's auction, a Rolex Split Seconds chronograph from the 40's, realizing almost $2.5M: Make no mistake, these are stunning, amazing timepieces, but the prices at auction are getting to the point of being almost laughably outrageous, even to the uber-rich collectors to whom these auctions cater to. To wit, a 5500 Explorer hammered in this morning's second auction for over $20K: Sheesh. I might need to take my Explorer 5500 build a little more seriously I guess hahahaha... To be fair, I think Phillips didn't disappoint with some of its more interesting finds, both Rolex and a plethora of lesser-known (yet still amazing) chronos from the 40's, 50's, and 60's (It's totally worth it to download the Phillips app and look through the hi-res catalog pictures of all the lots. They did an outstanding job photographing the auction, no question). For Rolex, there were some lesser-seen rarities like a gold cased 6238, a rarely seen (and mint!) all gold 6542 GMT with its dauphine hands and salmon-hued dial (just look at that coin edge bezel and all-red Bakelite insert too!) and a two-tone 1675 with the sharpest insert I've ever seen: Lest we forget the black dial triple calendar Moonphase 8171 'Stelline' that's sure to break the million dollar mark later today as well: Personally though, and as much as I love vintage Tudor and Rolex sports models, my absolute favorite of the weekend was neither Rolex nor Tudor (although I was salivating over the Tudor Home Plate that sold on Saturday. Be still my heart...). It was an absolutely STUNNING Longines fly-back chrono that hammered in at a "humble" (LOL) $75K: Amazing, right? Bears a striking resemblance to the Patek that sold for TEN TIMES that amount a few lots later too, doesn't it? Hmmm... (I know I'm late to the party, but it might be high time to start looking at collecting Longines haha...) And the bonus awesome lot from today for me was one of the coolest Patek Calatravas maybe ever. A possible "piece unique" with a 3-6-9 "Explorer" dial. Classy. And a steal at the estimated $120-180K! I just think this thing is so, so cool: I'd be curious to see what others here thought about this weekend's auctions. In my humble opinion, it was a surprisingly strong showing considering the economic climate in the certain parts of the world right now; because of my day job, I know the rare wine market at least has taken a massive hit lately due to the economic downturn in China and the barrel price of crude in the Middle East, so it's very interesting to see million-dollar Daytonas literally fly off the block and 100% sale results from the likes of Phillips (it's looking like only 2-3% of the lots will have hammered for below pre-sale estimate) and their mega-auctions, with no signs of depreciation or slowing sales on the horizon either it seems. I wonder, how many of us here on the forums may be looking at the V72-powered Phong 6263s and 6239s in a very different light after this weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Wow. Just wow. Incredibly difficult to even comprehend what drives a person to spend millions on a watch that originally cost $100, possibly $200. It reminds me of the people who are clamoring to buy Screaming Eagle at several thousand a bottle now. At those prices I would be very pleased with a high end Phong build. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I can't remember how many times I've seen silly prices topped by even sillier prices. I kind of wish I'd paid the silly prices of five or ten years ago now. Phong cases and high end frankens are definitely the way forward for me. I wear them for my own pleasure. Apart from my watch guy I can't remember the last time anyone could name the watch I'm wearing. I don't invest in watches, because I don't sell and have no intention of ever selling either my gens or reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowsweet_ Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 High-end frankens all the way. I'd rather have the satisfaction of 1) sourcing parts for and building my own watch; there's a certain emotional attachment and sense of achievement from putting together something yourself, and 2) getting to actually wear whatever watch I please, and appreciate it to the fullest. All while not completely worry about taking it out of a safe for fear of hurting its value like some of these overly-precious gens and their are artificially-inflated perceived value. As the astronomical prices climb even higher, the spirit of these well-loved and actually used/worn Franken builds is much more in tune with what the true, original spirit of the "tool watch" was the first place: watches that were meant to be worn (and perhaps worn hard) for use with a specific purpose in mind. There's a part of me that laments the fact that some of these storied timepieces are now relegated to a life locked away in a dark place for safe-keeping, only to see the day of light when being passed from one millionaire's safe to another's, to once retreat back into the shadows... There's a reason why Joanne Woodward engraved the back of Paul Newman's Daytonas, and the inscription sums it up perfectly. And it certainly didn't say "Put This Away for Safe Keeping"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 +1 With you all the way on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiesn089 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Yeah, nice watches, but honestly no where near a representation of rarity or desirability of theses pieces. Imo we've seen a ridiculous inflation of prices over the last few years based on a totally unjustifiable internet hysteria fueled by "expert" websites like Hodinkee and VRF. I visit vintage watch fairs on a regular basis and practically always you can find at least 5 PN daytonas, close to 20-30 vintage Daytonas in stellar condition and a ton of DRSDs, MF 1680s and even the odd 5517. Rare? Come on. High horology? Here are a ton of guys sporting V72 or V726 Daytonas and no one in their right mind will be thoroughly impressed by their horological quality. After all these are mere standard movements, workhorses no more, no less. Great looking, but no Speedy is of lesser quality - and they made it to the moon for god's sake. If I had the money and could decide what to do with it, buy one PN/ Milsub etc. OR a 5730p AND a 5970p WITH a TON of cash to spare, I'd certainly know what I would do. Hell you might even be able to commission something from VC, AP, Lange or even Patek for these amounts. The only guys who know what they are doing in this market are the "collector" dealers and auction houses ripping off the millionaires with more money than sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 That tropic Daytona is mental. It's obscene really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I've come to the conclusion that I need to go gen for modern pieces - 90s and onwards, such as 16710 or 16570, 14270, or others. Also, something like a vintage 1500 or 6694 would be fun. There are lots of those for cheap prices. Anything else vintage I need to build franken. The gen prices are just too astronomical and the franken would mean a heck of a lot more to me since I Iocated the parts and built it with the help of the cool people here. It would have a story. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I suppose I should put my 16750 and 16610 "P" serial up and save them for the next generation!! Who knows, They may put a down payment on a grandkids education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowsweet_ Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 @Mendota Explorer @panerai153 +1. I think certain modern pieces like the GMTs and the Explorer II (imho the last remaining modern Rolex that still harkens back to the old tool watches Rolex used to make) should appreciate in value. Not my cup of tea, but I digress... if I had the money (and the desire) to "invest" in collecting under-appreciated vintage Rolexes, I'd maybe start snatching up Bubble Backs. And fast. Again, not exactly my cup of tea, but I've got a feeling it may be the next bubble (no pun intended) in the vintage Rolex collector/auction market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hologramet Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 These are the new Dutch tulips. As always before a financial crash luxury items tend to either be overconsumed or rise absurdly in price. A watch... An investment? Please... When (not if) everything starts crashing. I'll be putting on a Seiko to tell the time. Not a fragile museum piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueTip Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 On 15 May 2016 at 11:30 PM, meadowsweet_ said: High-end frankens all the way. I'd rather have the satisfaction of 1) sourcing parts for and building my own watch; there's a certain emotional attachment and sense of achievement from putting together something yourself, and 2) getting to actually wear whatever watch I please, and appreciate it to the fullest. All while not completely worry about taking it out of a safe for fear of hurting its value like some of these overly-precious gens and their are artificially-inflated perceived value. As the astronomical prices climb even higher, the spirit of these well-loved and actually used/worn Franken builds is much more in tune with what the true, original spirit of the "tool watch" was the first place: watches that were meant to be worn (and perhaps worn hard) for use with a specific purpose in mind. There's a part of me that laments the fact that some of these storied timepieces are now relegated to a life locked away in a dark place for safe-keeping, only to see the day of light when being passed from one millionaire's safe to another's, to once retreat back into the shadows... There's a reason why Joanne Woodward engraved the back of Paul Newman's Daytonas, and the inscription sums it up perfectly. And it certainly didn't say "Put This Away for Safe Keeping"... This^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racingeagle Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Where do I get a Phuong Paul Newman? Sorry I'm mostly a Gen collector and very new to this. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Where do I get a Phuong Paul Newman? Sorry I'm mostly a Gen collector and very new to this. Thanks. Phong is Jewelry and Watch Google Jewelry and Watch Rolex. Should take you to his website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imajedi Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 That gold 6542 is RIDICULOUS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 As most of the old timers learned years ago, there are few investments as safe as vintage Rolex. And with the creme de la creme chasing after the creme de la creme of vintage Rolex, it should come as a surprise to no one that vintage Rolex prices -- especially for those coveted mint pieces -- are stratospheric. After all, if they were within reach of average collectors, they would not be so highly sought after. All I know is that those of us who paid the ridiculous prices for our gens & frankengens did so at the right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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