dbane883 Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Mr Dowling, are you a member here? http://nypost.com/2016/07/17/billionaire-sues-uk-watch-seller-for-duping-him-out-of-700k/ Edit... Let's see how this all unfolds before passing judgement on Mr. Dowling. Frankly would be surprised if he knowingly tried to dupe someone. He has too much to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
508-Fanatic Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Should we have contingency plans for our super-frankens? God forbid, if something were to happen to you or any of our venerable members would our family members/loved ones know enough to not sell the watches on the open market? One can imagine this is a way these watches get out... the other is greedy builders. We have a lofty but solemn responsibility in building these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Just like restoring a vintage automobile, keep a log book with all of the details, receipts, dates, notes, etc. related to the watch and build history. Make sure your better half knows where it is. In my case, my kiddos will get anything I buy or build and if it is gen, there will be documentation, and if it is franken there will be documentation, as well. The same advice holds true for any kind of collectible. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 1. If you were going to rep a 6538 dial, why would you rep a service dial? Not to mention it's the least desirable of all the service dial iterations. 2. What idiot is going to pay $94,000 for a 6538 with a service dial, service hands, mk3 insert... oh wait some idiot who sold his energy drink company I guess. watch in question: http://www.ukwatches.com/shop/?wpsc-product=6159-rolex-submariner-james-bond-ref-6538 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Other than the service dial, which is still both highly collectible & valuable, I do not see the fly in Bikoff's ointment? Further, Dowling, who I know to be an honest, knowledgeable & reliable collector, was 100% accurate in his description of the 6538 in question - ' The dial is an original factory replacement one, as supplied by Rolex from the mid 1970s, it is identical to the original one except that it is a matt finish, not gloss and all the text is in silver, as distinct from the gilt/silver mix of the original. But, like the original, it has the outer minute circle and the 200m = 660ft marking.' It sounds like Bikoff was either less than honest in HIS sales description or he received some very bad guidance along the way. As for Dowling being an RWG member, I highly doubt it. But I believe he has perused our pages on multiple occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Sounds like someone trying to make himself interesting and well rounded by power of chequebook, then as is often the case getting buyers remorse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbane883 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 On 7/19/2016 at 1:58 PM, Sogeha said: Sounds like someone trying to make himself interesting and well rounded by power of chequebook, then as is often the case getting buyers remorse. I'm not sure about that. The filing is pretty damning: http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Bikoff_v_Dowling.pdf Seems like the 6538 and the 666 Comex had aftermarket dials from the looks of things (unless they were swapped in the 2 years the guy owned them). Regardless, he's a bit screwed going up against a billionaire in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 That is a very interesting read, thank you for posting the link. I would love to see that on Judge Judy. If proved it could have serious repercussions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imajedi Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 I'm not sure about that. The filing is pretty damning: http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Bikoff_v_Dowling.pdf Seems like the 6538 and the 666 Comex had aftermarket dials from the looks of things (unless they were swapped in the 2 years the guy owned them). Regardless, he's a bit screwed going up against a billionaire in court. And a fake case with fake engravings. Doh!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 47 minutes ago, Sogeha said: If proved it could have serious repercussions The understatement of the decade? Holy smokes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Wow. Wow! Even the so called gurus and the top experts are engaging in shenanigans related to this vintage watch tulip bubble. Unbelievable. This guy thought it was on the up and up and he was buying from a world renowned expert. I would have had faith in Dowling, too. My guess is Dowling never in a million years thought this buyer would even look into it, or if he did he would just keep coming back to Dowling since he is/was so world renowned. Dowling probably mistakenly thought/assumed that he would have a lifetime relationship with this wealthy buyer and would have carte blanche to scam him whenever and however he deemed appropriate. A little here, a lot there, take the pieces back on "trade" and keep the cycle going. Like Bernie Madoff. Even Madoff started out completely legit. He just succumbed to his own greed and the ease with which he could take advantage of clueless millionaires. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 I'm quite shocked, up until Dbane started this thread I would have had total confidence in Mr Dowling. I thought maybe buying from him was paying over the odds for his reputation and peace of mind, but never would I have thought his watches were not as discribed. I imagine I am not the only one who thought like that. Now I don't know. Perhaps one should not preempt the trial, but the submission looks damning. One thing is for sure I would rather buy a high end build from someone active on this forum than pay genuine prices to risk getting a franken from a "reputable dealer" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Interesting, and maybe a bit ironic, considering that Dowling was the one that coined the phrase 'Buy the seller'... Quite honestly, it's not too surprising; there have been a number of 'above board' sellers and dealers that have dipped their toes into the questionable and shady at some point or another. If there's money to be made, the risk will always be there. Ultimately, the onus is on the buyer to know exactly what to look for, to do the research and to know what's good and bad before parting ways with their money. It's not any excuse for unscrupulous activities, but the best way to protect yourself is to be informed. There is plenty of information out there on the Internet, and oddly enough, some of the best informational resources are rep forums. Go figure... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbane883 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 For the moment, let's assume James knowingly sold Frankens as all original. When the buyer came back asking for a refund, you would think he would comply rather than be publically "outed" like this. It makes no sense unless he's super arrogant, stupid, or had no idea what he was selling. Under any scenario, the damage to his reputation could have been avoided. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 I wondered about that. He claims the watches had increased in value, so the buyer wants his money back. He does so without hesitation because he is a good guy, then turns around and resells for an extra profit. Perhaps he did not have the cash. I don't imagine for one moment Mr Dowling is poor, but there is a world of difference between having a few million tied up in assets and have instant access to a large amount of cash. I suppose only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdubis Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Another Rudy Kurniawan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagnesky Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Would be funny though if the tell on his watches was the SHitzerladn caseback engraving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 I've still got one of those. Now that is a collectors watch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagnesky Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 I've still got one of those. Now that is a collectors watch Yeah ive heard that they already increased in value... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Just got it out of the safe, well shoe box in the bottom draw :-) If the case is proved can we rename high end builds "Dowlings" in his honour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagnesky Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Just got it out of the safe, well shoe box in the bottom draw :-) If the case is proved can we rename high end builds "Dowlings" in his honour? My dowling says hi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 On 7/23/2016 at 1:54 AM, champagne-communist said: Yeah ive heard that they already increased in value... Damn, mine's a fake! I just checked it and it says Switzerladn... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 well now, where can i get a dowling? those are gorgeous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.