slopez4 Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 I recently started getting into vintage Rolex watches. Specifically the Paul Newman watch. Every time I travel to a different city I go to vintage watch stores to check out what they have. Most of you know that the vintage rolex watches are crazy expensive. Having said that how difficult is it to build a new perfect vintage Paul Newman Rolex? I know there are a few different color options and of out of those which is the coveted among the Paul Newmans? I have a few genuine rolex watches and just now have done more and more research on forums like this. I dont think I will ever buy a genuine watch again given that several websites have great replicas. I would rather pay a couple hundred dollars than $8,000+. Let me know what you guys think and if any of you members has any vintage Paul Newmans youre looking to get rid of I would be interested. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 There are 3 roads to non-genuine Newmans - 1. the cheapest/easiest option, buy a rep ($300+) 2. the moderately expensive/difficult option, build an ETA 7750-powered franken ($1,000+) 3. the expensive/difficult option, build a Valjoux 72-powered franken (genuine 62xx Daytonas are powered by [Rolex] modified V72 movements) ($3,000-$6,000+) 3a. buy a pre-assembled V72-powered franken from 1 of the aftermarket parts sellers & have it professionally overhauled (these things often look like they were assembled by monkeys & arrive in dirty/dodgy condition) ($3,000-$4,000+) For option 1, do your research before you begin! Spend time looking at genuine Newmans on gen watch sites & ebay. Learn the differences between versions & Oyster/non & collect pics of gens for comparison. Then, browse the dealer listings in the Watches section. For option 2, beginning with the same rep, swap out as many of the rep components with better aftermarket or genuine Rolex components as you can afford. For option 3, get a 2nd (or 3rd) job, start saving & pulling your hair out. At the same time, start searching online for a used V72 movement & have it properly overhauled. Then, buy an aftermarket case, dial/handset & bracelet. Optionally, if you have sufficiently deep pockets, you can replace the aftermarket crown/tube, crystal, pushers, dial coronet & bracelet with genuine Rolex components. Whichever way you go, there are many threads on RWG that detail members' previous project watches & be aware that as the price rises, so too does the complexity & likelihood of problems. Rarely, do the high end franken projects go according to plan. So be prepared to deal with the inevitable problems, cost overruns & detours along the way. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 It depends what you are happy with. To do it right you are looking at a bit more than 200 dollars. I would guesstimate 5000 to 6000 to make a convincing Newman. A Valjoux 72 is going to cost 1000-1500 before conversion parts are added and there isn't really a great substitute available. For a case, other than genuine, a Phong/Jenson is about 1400 IIRC, DW or Tonnywatches a bit less with a correspondingly less accurate design. Dial, well again Tonnywatches is around 400, good vietmanese a thousand plus or best of all a genuine one, but probably not a true Newman. Daytonas are not easy. I am sorry to welcome you to the forum with such bad news. On the up side virtually any other Rolex is easier and cheaper. As cheap as 120 Dollars for a reasonable 5513. Ideally you would want a crown, dial and crystal upgrade on that, so maybe view it as a starter kit. This hobby is addictive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopez4 Posted September 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 Thanks for the responses. I was well aware that the Newmans were in a category by themselves. Great pics freddy really appreciate it. I do have the funds to go about it the right way. Like you all said it starts off 1,500 and kind of takes off from there. Problems arise, of course. I told myself if im getting into a Paul Newman rep im going to go about it he right way and do whatever it takes. That being said option 3 on your post. If all goes well can this be a watch that lasts for years and years? Also I know the most important thing in the "vintage" rolex world is the vintage look. Having said that the older the watch looks the more appealing the watch? Or not neccessarily? I know that mint conditions Paul Newman watches can be 160,000 USD!!!! I guess its all personal preference at the end of the day. Thanks for the posts and more comments, concerns, and recommendations are welcomed. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 2 hours ago, slopez4 said: If all goes well can this be a watch that lasts for years and years? Also I know the most important thing in the "vintage" rolex world is the vintage look. Having said that the older the watch looks the more appealing the watch? Or not neccessarily? I know that mint conditions Paul Newman watches can be 160,000 USD!!!! I guess its all personal preference at the end of the day. Like all mechanical watches, to maintain function & long-life, the Valjoux chrono movement should be overhauled every 5-7 years. If done & properly treated, the watch should last for generations. The most important thing in the vintage Rolex world is the dial & movement. The 'vintage look', as you call it, is simply the result of natural age & wear. In other words, patina, which goes for all things of a certain age (eg, cars, furniture, clothes, etc). All else being equal (& appropriate), a natural looking patina is what sets a collection of newly made parts (ie a modern franken) apart from (what looks like) 'the real thing'. The former may be cool to its owner, but knowledgeable collectors know a vintage watch that looks new is almost always an Asian-made franken. & manufacturing a natural patina is, by far, the most difficult detail to get right in a vintage watch. In the case of vintage Rolex watches, patina varies in appearance from nearly new to badly damaged & all points in between. Choose your poison. $160,000? I believe a mint Newman exceeded the $2,000,000 mark last year, with the average running between $80-$200,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 This is my thread next door. http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=261603Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopez4 Posted September 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 2 hours ago, philwongnz said: This is my thread next door.http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=261603 Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Are all those your builds? If so all i can say is WOW. Bravo man! Really impressive. How long does it take to build something like that? And what is the average price for some of those builds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Are all those your builds? If so all i can say is WOW. Bravo man! Really impressive. How long does it take to build something like that? And what is the average price for some of those builds?Only two were with the V72. My dad is a watch restorer of which he has the same contact as phong and MQ. Last week he told me he can get a real gold PN for around 8k USD running on a V72, head only though. Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Phong is currently quoting 7000 USD and especially if you have bought from him before, there is sometimes some flexibility in his prices. Oh wait. I missed an important point. Real Gold. You are now my new best friend! Any chance asking what he could get SS for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newswire Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Since we are on the topics of pn Daytona. I have a dw/spinmaster Paul Newman on a 7750. Should I think about swapping out the dial and movement to st19 one? Is the dial spacing that much better? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Phong is currently quoting 7000 USD and especially if you have bought from him before, there is sometimes some flexibility in his prices. Oh wait. I missed an important point. Real Gold. You are now my new best friend! Any chance asking what he could get SS for?I think is around 5k. I am planning to go Vietnam in Dec so I can confirm. If DW is still around I think is best bang for your buck. Shame nothing now is semi close to gen for a reasonable price range Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopez4 Posted September 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 So just to get on the same page. 8,000 just for the head. How much more work would it after? Strap, engravings, etc? For the price is this pretty much as good as its going to get? What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Engraving is included, can engrave what ever you like. Strap is better if u go for gen. I haven't seen a gold one yet, as he didn't take any photos. Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdubis Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, philwongnz said: Engraving is included, can engrave what ever you like. Strap is better if u go for gen. I haven't seen a gold one yet, as he didn't take any photos. Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk We would all love to know how Phong gets his cases and parts, maybe you could tell us more about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 I met the guy who supplied Minh Que, he doesn't speak much English (Vietnamese) . They don't open up their factories for people and suppliers. Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdubis Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 I was pretty sure they would not, but can you explain us how the cases and parts are made ? Envoyé de mon SM-N930F en utilisant Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopez4 Posted September 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Thats pretty cool that there is a few Houdinis out there that can make or get ahold of whatever they like. I have come a long way from buying POS rolex watches in china town NY lol! Looking into a milgauss right now (rep) to start wearing as my every day watch. If anyone reading this has a PN they are willing to get rid of plz let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 I was pretty sure they would not, but can you explain us how the cases and parts are made ? Envoyé de mon SM-N930F en utilisant TapatalkI have no idea I'm afraid. All I've been told by dad was for my case it took 3 seperate people, one to cut the case, another shaping and third engraving. Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopez4 Posted September 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 What about papers? Can you get replica papers for a PN watch? I have seen some members posts and they have papers for the replica watches. Thought this was pretty cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 What about papers? Can you get replica papers for a PN watch? I have seen some members posts and they have papers for the replica watches. Thought this was pretty coolHmm I rather stop commenting, as it seems like I am touting. Maybe PM me as I don't wanna annoy the mods. Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Although I am not sure I agree with your description of MQ's source or case construction techniques, I am interested in hearing more myself. Nothing you have said so far is an annoyance. Please feel free to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Although I am not sure I agree with your description of MQ's source or case construction techniques, I am interested in hearing more myself. Nothing you have said so far is an annoyance. Please feel free to continue.Thanks for your approval. I very like this forum so I don't wanna get kicked out :-) For paper I think you can always source blank gens. For rep ones I think there's a lady who sells them (along with other makers) in Munich watch show.Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 33 minutes ago, philwongnz said: For paper I think you can always source blank gens. For rep ones I think there's a lady who sells them (along with other makers) in Munich watch show. Many serious collectors include ephemera like original watch boxes, advertisements, pens, display materials, product catalogs & registration paperwork in their collections, which make them more interesting. If paperwork is sought for that purpose, it is fine. However, criminals use genuine papers to fool buyers into thinking a fake Rolex is genuine. That type of activity is illegal & will definitely result in the criminal being banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwongnz Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Many serious collectors include ephemera like original watch boxes, advertisements, pens, display materials, product catalogs & registration paperwork in their collections, which make them more interesting. If paperwork is sought for that purpose, it is fine. However, criminals use genuine papers to fool buyers into thinking a fake Rolex is genuine. That type of activity is illegal & will definitely result in the criminal being banned.Totally agree, hence I wasn't comfortable talking about papers. Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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