TheSociety Posted November 15, 2016 Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 What do you think guys? Is this a serviced Cal 1030?Want to Buy: Vintage DW Daytona and Franken / Phong Daytona 6263, 62xx, etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 15, 2016 Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 Yes. To date, I have not heard of anyone manufacturing aftermarket 103x movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSociety Posted November 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 Yes. To date, I have not heard of anyone manufacturing aftermarket 103x movements.Thank you Freddy! Do you happen toKnow what's a fair price for this? I see $1500-1900 is that about right?Want to Buy: Vintage DW Daytona and Franken / Phong Daytona 6263, 62xx, etc! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 A fair price is what a buyer is willing to pay. Currently, for a clean/working 1030, I would consider $1,800-$2,000 a reasonable range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSociety Posted November 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 A fair price is what a buyer is willing to pay. Currently, for a clean/working 1030, I would consider $1,800-$2,000 a reasonable range.This is very informative. Thank you Freddy! Now if only I can find a v72 lolWant to Buy: Vintage DW Daytona and Franken / Phong Daytona 6263, 62xx, etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 "Know what's a fair price for this? I see $1500-1900 is that about right?" In today's market probably. "A fair price is what a buyer is willing to pay." True. I simply can/will not pay today's prices. I guess that is why I am on a replica site. Last 1030 (1066) I bought a few years back was in an 80% condition 1959 6605 SS DJ for $700 with a swiss jubilee bracelet. One before that was a 1956 tutone 6605 with original tt bracelet for $1000 but it has a refinished dial. A few years ago some of the 'rolexperts' claimed they never made a tutone 6605, only SS and all gold...until they started showing up. Btw, the 1030 has one more or less common problem that is expen$ive to fix today because of few parts...the winding rotor bearing p/n 7004. They used to be $30, now they are $200 or $300 when you can find one and many movements will need one. Projects with cal 1520/30/60/70 usually end up costing less and parts are much easier to find. Rotor bearings for a 15xx are $15 or $20 a set but it is usually the rotor axle that goes bad, about $12 plus labor. Reverser parts for a 1030 are harder to find than 15xx parts too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 2 hours ago, automatico said: Btw, the 1030 has one more or less common problem that is expen$ive to fix today because of few parts...the winding rotor bearing p/n 7004. They used to be $30, now they are $200 or $300 when you can find one and many movements will need one. Projects with cal 1520/30/60/70 usually end up costing less and parts are much easier to find. Rotor bearings for a 15xx are $15 or $20 a set but it is usually the rotor axle that goes bad, about $12 plus labor. Reverser parts for a 1030 are harder to find than 15xx parts too. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Yep this is why my 1030s only get worn on special occasions now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 18 minutes ago, Nanuq said: Yep this is why my 1030s only get worn on special occasions now. This is also 1 of the reasons it is recommended that mechanical movements be overhauled every 5-7 years. Keeping those wear parts clean & well-oiled will extend their usable lifespan. 1 of the parts that had to be replaced when I built my Phase 2 6542 was that rotor, due to bearing wear. Fortunately, after a great deal of effort, I was able to locate a NOS part & I overhauled the movement last year & found the bearing in fine fettle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSociety Posted November 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 This is also 1 of the reasons it is recommended that mechanical movements be overhauled every 5-7 years. Keeping those wear parts clean & well-oiled will extend their usable lifespan.I definitely will be doing this! Do you have a recommendation on US servicing on a movement like this?Want to Buy: Vintage DW Daytona and Franken / Phong Daytona 6263, 62xx, etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, TheSociety said: I definitely will be doing this! Do you have a recommendation on US servicing on a movement like this? The 103x caliber is a relatively easy movement for an experienced watchmaker to work on. Trouble is getting parts, since Rolex has not manufactured new 103x parts for decades. But, if you are patient & have deep pockets, they can be found. If you cannot locate a local Rolex certified service tech, try Bob Ridley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revere Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 I got my 1030 for $1300 two years ago. It was "recently serviced" but there's no way that's the case, because the amplitude of the balance is way low, and the isochronism sucks too. The hairspring is probably out of plane, and the mainspring is probably fatigued. Recently serviced can be untrue sometimes. Either way, I got a good deal, so I'm not super upset about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I got my 1030 for $1300 two years ago. It was "recently serviced" but there's no way that's the case, because the amplitude of the balance is way low, and the isochronism sucks too. The hairspring is probably out of plane, and the mainspring is probably fatigued. Recently serviced can be untrue sometimes. Either way, I got a good deal, so I'm not super upset about it.Not all watchmakers poise the balance etc. during service. Some will just take apart to clean/oil gears/jewels/bridges and adjust the time.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 33 minutes ago, slay said: Not all watchmakers poise the balance etc. during service. Some will just take apart to clean/oil gears/jewels/bridges and adjust the time. I do not know any watchmakers (including myself) who poise the balance as part of a routine service. In fact, unless there is a specific problem with the balance, I cannot think why you would disassemble it in the 1st place. The only time I would poise a balance is when replacing/repairing the hairspring, balance wheel or balance screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I do not know any watchmakers (including myself) who poise the balance as part of a routine service. In fact, unless there is a specific problem with the balance, I cannot think why you would disassemble it in the 1st place. The only time I would poise a balance is when replacing/repairing the hairspring, balance wheel or balance screws.If a watchmaker is adjusting the watch, that's what they need to do. Copypasta from my watchmaker below: Adjusting a watch involves procedures that include ensuring the balance wheel is 'balanced' (poised), adjusting the hairspring, and even shaping the balance pivots and adjusting how the hairspring is attached to the balance wheel. The three critical adjustments are for position (as defined above, see accuracy), temperature (the ability to keep good time over a range of different temperatures), and isochronism (the ability to keep an even rate over the life of one spring wind, typically 24 hours). An un-adjusted watch should run reasonably constant in two to three positions (for a pocket watch dial up, pendant up, pendant left/right) as these are the most common positions the watch would encounter either in the pocket, or on a table at night. High grade watches are adjusted to five positions or more.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 slay, if your watchmaker has the time/skill to perform this delicate, factory-set adjustment routinely, my hat's off to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I figure it is best to stay away from balance assemblies unless there is something wrong. It is bad enough to have to r/r them during service. Cleaning and oiling the balance cap/hole jewels is all they get from me as long as the watch keeps good time and the hairspring is level. If the hs or balance wheel is out of whack, I take it to a guy who can make it right, I no longer screw with them. I still balance a motorcycle wheel now and then though...last one was a Harley D Garbage Wagon (full dresser) wheel that weighed more than a Puch Maxi MoPed. Imho the best thing about quartz watches are not convenience or accuracy...it is that they put hairsprings out of business. Wearing an Accutron II Alpha today. Hairbrained maybe, but not hairspringed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 For everyone unfamiliar with what our gurus are talking about, read here: https://www.minus4plus6.com/regulation.php Better be sitting down, this is spooky stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 slay, if your watchmaker has the time/skill to perform this delicate, factory-set adjustment routinely, my hat's off to him.Yeah... when I read this I thought 'this sounds more complicated than brain surgery' Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 57 minutes ago, slay said: Yeah... when I read this I thought 'this sounds more complicated than brain surgery' Most watchmakers' hesitancy to perform routine poising results from a simple cost/benefit analysis. In order to repair an errant movement, I must occasionally sort out a mangled hair spring. But I do that because I have no other choice. This is not because I lack the skills, but because the potential upside (questionable improvement in timing consistency) is far outweighed by the potential downside (of hairspring damage). & this is amplified when working on vintage Rolex pieces where replacement 'springs are expensive & difficult (often nearly impossible) to come by. Why tempt fate for what is often little or no return since factory-set poising rarely needs to be corrected during normal use. This is why I questioned your watchmaker's choice of routine poising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Poising during routine servicing. If the watchmaker is confident that both the balance and hairspring are true in the round and flat, then poising can be used to alleviate positional errors. But, poising only needs to be performed when there are issues to be addressed. The only time I have had to do any poising (dynamic ) was after a balance staff replacement. I suppose it's up to the watchmaker to decide whether the calibre of movement is performing well enough in positions after servicing, whether any poising needs to take place. I have serviced 2 chronometers and they were both within spec after...Phew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 On 11/16/2016 at 3:13 PM, Nanuq said: Yep this is why my 1030s only get worn on special occasions now. So, what you're saying is that your 1030 based watches now only see light when you're on chainsaw duty and wrestling grizzly bears then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickFlorida Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 In regards to the original post..... Are there really any fake movements that look like this made from scratch or is the implication that there are cases where people create fake movements from some gen parts combined with non gen? I thought only the Yuki 3135 is a made from scratch replica movement, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Or, hunting grizzly bears with chainsaws! ME with the chainsaw ... not the bear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 "In regards to the original post..... Are there really any fake movements that look like this made from scratch or is the implication that there are cases where people create fake movements from some gen parts combined with non gen?" I never saw or heard of a replica or Frankenstein 1030 or 1570. I have seen fake 'bubbleback' type movements with a very accurate to original BB style cover over the movement and BB type rotor on an extended rotor axle. The one I took apart used a Bulova movement but do not remember the calibre. There used to be quite a few floating around watch shows back when BB watches were in demand. I have a BB replica with a very good case and dial but it has an Eta 2451 in it. What gives it away (other than the movement) is the SCOC blurb on the dial where genuine models had 'chronometer' or 'officially certified chronometer'. "I thought only the Yuki 3135 is a made from scratch replica movement, correct?" Yes far as I know but the replica 3135 comes in at least two versions...Yuki and another one that has been reported not to be as good. Iirc the 'not Yuki' clone has red covers mounted over the reversers making it easy to spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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