Italiansub Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 I purchased one of these...it's nice, but the removable screws for sizing appear to be fake...at least three of them are only pins decorated like screws. I'm trying to fit this and on a woman's wrist and it's still too big...Anyone know of a quality after market 20mm bracelet that has many removable links?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflash Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Rafflestime is good value, solid midlinks though and you will need to drill out the end midlink slightly to fit 2mm spring bars:http://rafflestime.com/signed-20mm-oyster-ss-quality-watch-bracelet-all-matt/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 http://www.ebay.com/itm/20MM-FLIPLOCK-STEEL-OYSTER-BAND-BRACELET-FOR-ROLEX-MEN-EXPLORER-SUBMARINER-WATCH-/351941420192?hash=item51f157e4a0:g:hfAAAOSwHQ9WV7S1 Riyi is another possibility. I hear that you can also ask for branded and he'll send that to you if he has it in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 All of the rep bracelets I've dealt with have 5 removable links. I doubt the Startime bracelet has "fake screws", never seen any but I suppose it's always possible with things Chinese. I have, however, seen a lot of screws that were cross-threaded and sometimes required a drill to remove. Maybe soak them in something like Aero-Kroil and they might loosen up a bit... Have you asked Startime about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italiansub Posted December 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Thanks Justin. The screws that I thought were fake spin but don't come out or "loosen", which makes me think that's it's a pin decorated like a screw. Do you have any favorite sources for bracelets? I'll get in touch w startime. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 If the pin turns but doesn't come out, it's stripped. If the end of the screw comes thru the link, you might be able to put a punch on the screw end and press down on the link while turning the slotted end of the screw. If that doesn't work, you'll have to drill out the screw from the threaded end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italiansub Posted December 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 If the pin turns but doesn't come out, it's stripped. If the end of the screw comes thru the link, you might be able to put a punch on the screw end and press down on the link while turning the slotted end of the screw. If that doesn't work, you'll have to drill out the screw from the threaded end. Got it. The screws ends don't come through...so I'm wondering if it's worth getting it drilled out...I don't have a setup to do that. The band was about $60...I imagine getting a machinist to do the work to it would be about the same...maybe someone with some knowledge of this could chime in?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alessandri Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Got it. The screws ends don't come through...so I'm wondering if it's worth getting it drilled out...I don't have a setup to do that. The band was about $60...I imagine getting a machinist to do the work to it would be about the same...maybe someone with some knowledge of this could chime in?Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCan you post a picture?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 I have used quite a few of the ST Italian made all steel and ss/14k/18k bracelets in the past 20+ years and they all have been very good quality. Their heavy mid link tutone jubilee bracelets are hard to beat but high gold prices have made them pricey. Sounds like their China bracelets may not be as good. I have had a few stripped screws on run of the mill 'dead end' bracelet links and there is usually no easy fix other than pulling the link apart. Always use Loctite on the threads when putting it back together for two reasons: 1 - Keep the screw from coming out. 2 - Prevent corrosion/galling. Heat the links over a candle etc before removing the screws to soften the Loctite. Heating the link works for corrosion too. ST also has good hollow mid link oyster sub/DJ links for about $15 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italiansub Posted December 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 I got mine through a well known/respected member since I don't have a startime account. It was new when I got it. It is the Hollow endlink, solid midlink stainless steel oyster band. I'm under the impression this is the right band for a DJ 160xx or 162xx. Should I be looking for a hollow midlink instead? Seems to me like the screws were stripped from the time I got it...since the very first thing I did was try to size the band, and the three of the 5 screws were just spinning and not coming out. Thanks for the loctite tip.Have you actually compared the TT bands from startime (which as far as I can see sell for $500-900) vs a Gen band? The price is almost similar enough to just go gen...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italiansub Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Here are pics of the screw heads And here is the opposite side...no opening to "push" out the screw.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 "Have you actually compared the TT bands from startime (which as far as I can see sell for $500-900) vs a Gen band? The price is almost similar enough to just go gen...? I have compared the tutone jubilee bracelets to genuine and the Italian ST bracelets are probably just about as good. If you use genuine hoods and clasp they look the same. Iirc the removable screws are the same size as oem too. Have a low mileage genuine late 1980s 16233 DJ with a jubilee and when compared to a new heavy mid link ST bracelet, they are very close. ST offers a regular tutone bracelet with thinner mid links and they will probably not last as long. Genuine hollow mid link tutone jubilee bracelets have mid links made like the heavy link ST bracelets with thicker, rounded inside corners in the mid links. ST ss/18k heavy link 20mm jubilee is $1130 USD, ss/14k heavy link is $875, ST ss/18k 20mm oyster is $1090, and ss/14k is $790. Have a genuine 20mm ss/18k oyster bracelet and it has steel tubes over the screws inside the removable link screws to help with friction, can not tell if it has them on the permanent links or not. Do not know if ST Italy made tutone oyster has them or not but they probably do. Last I heard a new genuine 20mm ss/18k hollow link oyster or jubilee with regular clasp was around $3k USD. A good used one will probably go for $800 to $1200 USD. Some owners use 19mm bracelets on watches made for 20mm bracelets so the outer edge of the links will not scuff and wear the inner edges of the lugs. A lot of watches with old style hoods will have the inside tips of the lugs worn down where the bracelet has gnawed on them. This does not apply to watches with sel bracelets. Gnawed! Like in "I gnawed half the teeth off second gear in my old Muncie." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italiansub Posted December 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Nice info. You blew my mind by saying some people put 19mm bracelets on...I may look into doing that since this is for a women with petite wrists...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 5 hours ago, automatico said: Like in "I gnawed half the teeth off second gear in my old Muncie." You need to yank that clock-gear Muncie out and stuff in a Super T-10! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 "You need to yank that clock-gear Muncie out and stuff in a Super T-10!" Ha! My rock crusher days are long past. I put the Muncie remark in to see if any gearheads noticed. I used to keep an M22 cluster gear with greased needle bearings frozen inside it in our freezer because I shucked so many main drive and cluster gears (the bearings were loose, you had to put them in one at a time with heavy grease to hold them in place). I put a wooden dowel inside to hold the bearings in place and you could take the gear box apart, wash the shrapnel out, stick the new cluster gear in, and push the dowel out with the main drive pin. I still have the tail shaft bushing puller a friendly machinist made in the 1970s so I could r/r tail shaft bushings without removing the tail shaft case and shifter. The 410, 456, and 488 cogs spun the drive shaft so fast it ate tail shaft bushings in a hurry. Times changed...the last V8 I had was a new 1978 Pontiac Grand Prix...with a 'slim jim' automatic. Since then it has been all 4 banger cars and motorcycles except for a few thumpers. "Nice info. You blew my mind by saying some people put 19mm bracelets on...I may look into doing that since this is for a women with petite wrists..." Some 19mm bracelets have regular '16mm' clasps and some have narrow clasps (14mm?), the narrow clasp might be better but you would need an earlier narrow link bracelet too. I have a 1980s OPD 15053 tutone and I'll dig it out later and see which clasp it has just to see. Edit: Measured genuine ss/18k 20mm and ss/18k 19mm hollow mid link 1980s jubilee bracelets. The 20mm bracelet has a clasp cap that is 16.6mm wide outside, 15.6mm inside with the last link that goes under the clasp being 15.3mm wide and the leading links that join the lugs are 19.5mm wide. The 19mm bracelet has a clasp cap that is 16.6mm wide outside, 15.6mm inside with the last link that goes under the clasp being 15.3mm wide (same as the 20mm link), and the leading links that join the lugs are 18.5mm wide. The clasps both have the same part number (62523H.18) and the links under the clasp are the same. Looks like the main difference is the width of the leading links that connect to the watch. So...tt hollow mid link bracelets made in the 1980s are basically the same except for the leading links. All my ST tutone Italy jubilees are 20mm and measure very close to the same as the genuine one above so genuine clasps and hoods will work. Measured an AK14010M oyster bracelet clasp with hoods and it is 15.6mm outside same as the tutones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickFlorida Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 So star time does show the individual links as Italian made. But is the 75 dollar complete bracelet Chinese I assume? Why don't they sell a complete Italian made stainless submariner bracelet I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 "But is the 75 dollar complete bracelet Chinese I assume?" It must be because the Italy made jubilees are specified as such. "Why don't they sell a complete Italian made stainless submariner bracelet I wonder." They used to but the 20mm Italy made oyster type bracelets must not be available now. I still have one from a few years ago but it has solid mid links...it was about $99 iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italiansub Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 "But is the 75 dollar complete bracelet Chinese I assume?" It must be because the Italy made jubilees are specified as such."Why don't they sell a complete Italian made stainless submariner bracelet I wonder." They used to but the 20mm Italy made oyster type bracelets must not be available now. I still have one from a few years ago but it has solid mid links...it was about $99 iirc. Thanks for the intel on this. I managed to work out a 20mm TT jubilee tha looks pretty nice on the watch. I wonder if anyone knows where I could source a hollow midlink oyster with removable end links?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk "Have you actually compared the TT bands from startime (which as far as I can see sell for $500-900) vs a Gen band? The price is almost similar enough to just go gen...? I have compared the tutone jubilee bracelets to genuine and the Italian ST bracelets are probably just about as good. If you use genuine hoods and clasp they look the same. Iirc the removable screws are the same size as oem too. Have a low mileage genuine late 1980s 16233 DJ with a jubilee and when compared to a new heavy mid link ST bracelet, they are very close. ST offers a regular tutone bracelet with thinner mid links and they will probably not last as long. Genuine hollow mid link tutone jubilee bracelets have mid links made like the heavy link ST bracelets with thicker, rounded inside corners in the mid links. ST ss/18k heavy link 20mm jubilee is $1130 USD, ss/14k heavy link is $875, ST ss/18k 20mm oyster is $1090, and ss/14k is $790. Have a genuine 20mm ss/18k oyster bracelet and it has steel tubes over the screws inside the removable link screws to help with friction, can not tell if it has them on the permanent links or not. Do not know if ST Italy made tutone oyster has them or not but they probably do. Last I heard a new genuine 20mm ss/18k hollow link oyster or jubilee with regular clasp was around $3k USD. A good used one will probably go for $800 to $1200 USD. Some owners use 19mm bracelets on watches made for 20mm bracelets so the outer edge of the links will not scuff and wear the inner edges of the lugs. A lot of watches with old style hoods will have the inside tips of the lugs worn down where the bracelet has gnawed on them. This does not apply to watches with sel bracelets. Gnawed! Like in "I gnawed half the teeth off second gear in my old Muncie." Wonder if there are any other options for hollow midlink TT jubilee bracelets between the $75 riyi gold filled versions I see on eBay....and the $850 ST heavy link version that is passable?With decent condition used gen versions coming up here and there for less than $1000 I have a hard time shelling out that kind of money for a ST band. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 "I wonder if anyone knows where I could source a hollow midlink oyster with removable end links?" They are hard to find because most replica bracelets have solid mid links and anyone who gets a hollow mid link bracelet tends to hang on to it. Like I said in another post, the best 93150 I have came on an MBK 1680 but not all MBK watches had them. Many of the F520117 16610 'Noobmariners' had very good hollow link bracelets but they were SEL type and had a half link next to the clasp and 93260 stamped on the last link. It would be a hassle to convert one to an old style bracelet. Read where some of the newer cartel 5513 etc had pretty good hollow 93150 bracelets but you have to buy the whole watch to get one and by the time you get one, they might have changed suppliers and the bracelets could be different. "Wonder if there are any other options for hollow midlink TT jubilee bracelets between the $75 riyi gold filled versions I see on eBay....and the $850 ST heavy link version that is passable?" I would like to say yes but high gold prices have made them expensive. That and the 'vintage rolex gold rush'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickFlorida Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Good lord this hobby is frustrating. There are excellently replicated newer complete subs with complicated rehaut engravings but no one in China makes a decent older style oyster bracelet anymore? How do they not care about the demand which means money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 "There are excellently replicated newer complete subs with complicated rehaut engravings but no one in China makes a decent older style oyster bracelet anymore? How do they not care about the demand which means money?" That is a very good question! After all, they took the time to copy the complicated modern glidelock 'hacksaw' clasp and that could not have been easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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