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azbank

Finally decided to do things myself!

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Gentlemen! 

After disappointment of someone doing the mods for me, I have decided to take the matters into my own hands and doing all the screwing up by myself :))  In helping me to do so, could you be so kind to assist me with the following: 

1. What kind and what size of the drill(s) I need to order for drilling the lug holes for 5513.  I am in Austria so if you have some sources or can point me out to some ebay examples in German language would be great. Otherwise, searches in English will also work just great! 

2. What kind, type, size of a tap I need to make a new thread in the case for 703,700 tube/crowns. I read that the tubes for these crowns are the same, if not maybe I can get different size taps just in case. 

3. To recess the crown deeper into the case I saw in one of the posts that someone was using a round tip drill, if you know the type and size would be great to know. 

4. The bezel on the cartel vintage sub cases is normally very loose, did anyone used Clark's spring, or any other remedy besides glue-freezing the bezel? :) I don't want to purchase the aftermarket bezel construction. 

5. I saw in one of the posts fat cartel crown was filed thinned to look vintaged, was really nice, however I would assume the inner thread would be damaged. What are the tools to open the new thread inside the crown, if such thing is at all possible. 

Thank you!   

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Happy to provide help, but please confirm that what I uses is correct with others as well. These work for me.

 

Lugholes - 1.4 mm, #55 US

Gen tube or Athaya? Athaya takes a M3 x 0.35mm tap size.

Recess - less precise. Slighlty larger than tube threads so it sits down a bit.

Bezel - there is a tension ring that you just put some kinks or bends in to make it firmer.

Address the inner crown guards when you replace the crown tube.

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I would suggest smaller than the above 1.4 mm for lug holes.   You can always go bigger but if you drill too big you are buggered!

 

Most of the builds people drill 1.2mm.   

 

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Happy to provide help, but please confirm that what I uses is correct with others as well. These work for me.  

Lugholes - 1.4 mm, #55 US

Gen tube or Athaya? Athaya takes a M3 x 0.35mm tap size.

Recess - less precise. Slighlty larger than tube threads so it sits down a bit.

Bezel - there is a tension ring that you just put some kinks or bends in to make it firmer.

Address the inner crown guards when you replace the crown tube.

Clear and concise

I thought lugholes are 1.25mm

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For replacing the loose as hell cartel bezel, you can buy a Swiss made bezel and retaining ring combo on ebay.   I think it's the same as Clark's because you have to polish it.

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I would suggest smaller than the above 1.4 mm for lug holes.   You can always go bigger but if you drill too big you are buggered!
 
Most of the builds people drill 1.2mm.   
 

1.2mm is too straight for the 1.2mm bars pivot. That why 1.25mm holes are necessary.


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I meant in terms of purchasing a drill bit.    With a 1.2 mm you can drill once, test fit and will probably be too small, and then drill again with a slight twist of the wrist.

But I agree, if he can find one with a 1.25mm it will simplify.   I do see 1.25mm bits for sale in U.S. but are they in Australia?

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Actually the #55 drill bit is 1.32mm, it is slightly oversized, but I don't think you can drill a 1.2mm hole since that's the diameter of the springbar tip as I recall

A #56 is 1.181mm- too small

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I meant in terms of purchasing a drill bit.    With a 1.2 mm you can drill once, test fit and will probably be too small, and then drill again with a slight twist of the wrist.
But I agree, if he can find one with a 1.25mm it will simplify.   I do see 1.25mm bits for sale in U.S. but are they in Australia?

Never find 1.25 in France. I use 1.3. The difference can't be seen


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I use 1.2mm, then very slightly polish/ lightly sand the fat bars on the trunk to fit. I'd rarther do this than have oversized lug holes, but that's just me.

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A good and reliable supplier for tools in Europe is Horst Zu Jeddeloh GmbH in Germany. You'll find nearly all drill sizes there.

Cousinsuk.com might also be a good source but usually is more expensive for non-watch-specific tools.

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We should have told the OP by now.... Check out the Cartel build by JackFlash on the forum.   He describes all the tools he used.   Even the tool used to countersink the Athaya crown.

 

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I use #55 (1.3mm) because replica bracelets are usually out of spec and need the extra wiggle room.  Putting a slight bevel on the inside of each lug hole also helps guide the spring bar.  No bevels on the outside of the lugs.  Not ever.  Putting a couple layers of masking tape over the lug holes before drilling may keep shavings from scratching the lugs.  Poke a hole in the tape to make it easier to center the drill.  When a drill bit stops cutting, change the bit, do not force it. 

"For replacing the loose as hell cartel bezel, you can buy a Swiss made bezel and retaining ring combo on eBay.   I think it's the same as Clark's because you have to polish it."

Clark, watchman408 on eBay and ST are all the same.  I have had much better luck with these bezel kits than MBK, various cartel etc. 

watchman408 has one now, item number  122299989474  $79.00 free delivery

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It's strange that the neck size of the cartel case is so near gen. But their bezel is so off and loose that they have to glue the insert.

My guess is that they make the midcase but purchase the bezel from someone? Or....... It's faster and easier to fit the bezel parts if they are too big.

 

At any rate, you have to spend 80 bucks to replace the bezel but it's worth it.

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3 hours ago, Bart Cordell said:


Never find 1.25 in France. I use 1.3. The difference can't be seen


emoji632.png

yes - 1.3. That post was from memory and I'm easily confused these days. That's why I was hoping for others to chime in!

 

B

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"It's strange that the neck size of the cartel case is so near gen.  But their bezel is so off and loose that they have to glue the insert.  My guess is that they make the midcase but purchase the bezel from someone?"

I know what you mean.  Genuine case necks are 28.2mm as are my MBK/Yuki/IG44 and cartel cases from 'Paul' (Abay) but some others are off.  DW is 28.1 to 28.15 making oem spec crystals and bezels too loose.  GS has 3 or 4 different T19 crystals and you can swap them around and sometimes get a good fit.

"Or....... It's faster and easier to fit the bezel parts if they are too big."

They might do this so they can slam them together by hand without a press...who knows?  My guess is they buy parts from various sources and do not care if they fit properly as long as they do not fall apart.  One run of 5513/1680 from Abay had the right size 28.2mm case neck with a 'short skirt' crystal glued to the case neck and they pushed a 'spring wire' type rotating bezel down over the crystal and the spring wire caught in the space below the crystal skirt and held the rotating bezel on...for a while.  I have about 10 like this from around 2005.  Other than the goofy bezels and the case back gasket groove cut in the case, they are pretty good.  For some reason they mounted the case back gaskets in the case like a vintage SD instead of the case back.

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1 hour ago, automatico said:

cartel cases from 'Paul' (Abay)

Thank you for all your valuable comments! Who is the seller above? "Paul" 

Regarding the bezel system, can the cartel bezel be tightened by replacing the inner bezel spring with the Clark's? or whole system needs to be changed? 

 

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LOL, Paul was one of the early dealers around 2005-6 - he'd have crazy sales- that was back when you could get a DRSD for $139 with a swiss eta and it even had a working HE valve. The bracelet was hollow link and pretty nice- had the clasp with the Rolex crown on the side like this one

5513natationgeneva1.jpg

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"...$139 with a swiss eta and it even had a working HE valve. The bracelet was hollow link and pretty nice - had the clasp with the Rolex crown on the side like this one."

A genuine example cost a little bit more but flyin' down the road with your arm out the window...they look exactly the same to me.   :pimp:     I got robbed!  I paid $159!                      

eBay item number:  221920434323

 

 

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5 hours ago, azbank said:

Thank you for all your valuable comments! Who is the seller above? "Paul" 

Regarding the bezel system, can the cartel bezel be tightened by replacing the inner bezel spring with the Clark's? or whole system needs to be changed? 

 

Unfortunately, the only way to properly get a bezel assembly to fit correctly on the new cartels is to buy an entire bezel assembly.   You need a new retainer ring, the bezel, and maybe a better tension ring and then I got a new insert for 1 to 1 pearl.

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5 hours ago, azbank said:

Thank you for all your valuable comments! Who is the seller above? "Paul" 

Who Paul is!?  Carzy!  BIG BIG SALE TODAY ONLEY, you bye MANY WATCH now!  

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What a blast from the past... Hack-R are you seeing this? And he showed up again same time as you?? :g: Carzy!

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You always knew when your in-box sounded funny before you clicked on it.  Hysterical-like, and everything was in CAPS and spelled wrong.

One of his $138 Sea Dwellers was the piece I chucked out into the ocean on that day cruise with my brother.

CARZY!

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