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RobU

My Grail 6263

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I started of lusting after a gen 6263 years ago, but alas, even then they were just too expensive.  Today, they're even crazier in price (especially the Gen 1 exotic dial).

 

Over the years I've collected/sold and wore a bunch of different Gen Rolex's:  Submariner, Daytona (modern) and GMT II for almost 20 years now.  

 

I got the bug to get a 6263, but as I stated earlier, the Gen was just not in the cards.  So I joined several replica watch forums and started to dig deeper.  

I was not satisfied at all with what I saw coming from dealers (price range from $180 - $350).  They just looked "off" to me.

 

The deeper I dug, the more it became evident that I would be looking into a Superfranken custom build.  I contacted one of the well known "builders" on RWI and here's what we ended up with:

Gen hands

Gen crystal

Gen tube

Gen crown

Gen braclet - 78350 w/571 endlinks

Gen bezel

Gen insert

Gen mk2 pushers

Fully converted Valjoux 727

Custom case

Custom dial - specially aged

 

Originally, it had a Tiffany & Co. dial and a rep bezel.  The T & C. dial caused WAY too much unwanted attention as that's basically a one-off watch and worth close to $1 million.  So I sent it back to my builder for a standard dial and to install a gen bezel.

 

image22.png

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It's a good observation freddy333, but the more and more gen 6263's I look at the more I'm finding that they are slightly off-center as well.  

 

I have the Patrizzi Pocket Expert - Cosomograph Daytona Manual Winding book and there are plenty of examples in there of 6263s that are slightly off-center.  It looks to be something that affected gens as well.

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You can see the misalignment of to some extent on the one on the left.  Even the bezel and crown look off center compared to the second hand.  

The one on the right has the crown off center compared to the second hand as well.  

 

I've looked a bunch more pics of gen and many have some type of misalignment.  Of course, there are some that are perfect as well.

 

We know these watches were "cobbled" together using different parts from different suppliers.  Rolex used three suppliers for the dial alone. 

OysterPNs-580x524.jpg.5e3944ca1a314270f8887d9ef771ad68.jpg

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I think the 'misalignment' you see is due either to parallax or camera angle.

Still, what I am referring to is the centering of the coronet over the word ROLEX. I have never seen a genuine Daytona where this alignment is uneven when viewed dead-on. Rolex would never let something like that leave the factory & certainly no Rolex customer would accept it.

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Thanks Freddy.  I'll have to check it out once I get it back in my hands to be sure on the alignment.  It's hard for me to see the alignment without the second hand being at 12 o'clock.  It'll be interesting to see how it looks in real life.

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Must have been the angle the pic was taken along with the second hand not positioned at 12 o'clock.  I now have the watch back and the alignment looks perfect to me.

25.jpg

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SAM_5779.JPG.4e4d181cf050898d6f22191ea9313e76.JPGfile.thumb.jpg.999eed73b1c602ba6988168ee16667c2.jpg

 

Is there a difference from these?  It looks like they have similar alignments.

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Must have been the angle the pic was taken along with the second hand not positioned at 12 o'clock.  I now have the watch back and the alignment looks perfect to me.
imageproxy.php?img=&key=42d035e53dc34051790b21ec79a8325b8d578c3e21cc44ad167c59ff9a37a089imageproxy.php?img=&key=42d035e53dc34051790b21ec79a8325b8d578c3e21cc44ad167c59ff9a37a089
25.thumb.jpg.ba2c808e11fb35e02a607d94cfcef68e.jpg
Now that is a thing of beauty.

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As a last ditch effort, I used Power Point to draw the lines and arrows on the face.  They are all the exact same distance apart from each other (on each pic).  There is barely any difference between the two.

59b1379b1dba2_File1.thumb.png.9a5cf5f7ce19cfb1575e5d442af84845.png

2017-09-07 08_16_01-Greenshot1.png

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Must have been the angle the pic was taken along with the second hand not positioned at 12 o'clock.  I now have the watch back and the alignment looks perfect to me.
imageproxy.php?img=&key=42d035e53dc34051790b21ec79a8325b8d578c3e21cc44ad167c59ff9a37a089imageproxy.php?img=&key=42d035e53dc34051790b21ec79a8325b8d578c3e21cc44ad167c59ff9a37a089
25.thumb.jpg.ba2c808e11fb35e02a607d94cfcef68e.jpg
Which rep dealer sells a good version of this.

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54 minutes ago, Beau7816 said:

Which rep dealer sells a good version of this.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

I'm not sure how much of a stickler you are for aesthetics, but I was over the top wanting it to look as good as possible.

 

You usually run into those types of issues with "off the shelf" reps.  Spacing for the sub-dials is off.  The chrono function doesn't work.  The case shape is off.  The pushers are located in the wrong position.

 

That being said:  I know quite a few people like the products from here:

https://puretime03.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?limit=100&q=6263

https://www.intime01.co/26-daytona?n=50&p=3

 

There are a few custom builders on this forum as well.  Just search "6263"

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1 hour ago, Patekseeker said:

Cost for this build?

$10K

 

The movement with the V727 conversion is half the build cost alone.  Try to find a gen caseback or bezel for a 6263 under $4K each.

I got lucky with the gen parts.  This could have cost closer to $15k.

 

Like I said, the only parts that aren't gen are the midcase and dial.  I know the price is steep, but not when you compare it to the $400 - $600K for a gen 6263 exotic dial.

I forgot to post a pic of the heart.

SAM_5790.JPG

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18 minutes ago, RobU said:

I know the price is steep, but not when you compare it to the $400 - $600K for a gen 6263 exotic dial.

I forgot to post a pic of the heart.

Looks good, but I think you mean $40-$60k (not $400-$600k) for the dial. With a few rare exceptions, the value of an entire mint Newman is generally between $100-$150k.

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Sorry for the confusion.  I was referring to the entire watch, not just the dial.  If I could find a dial, it would be incredible.  My watch builder hesitated a couple years ago at $15K for a dial and he missed it.  Now he's kicking himself (obviously) since they never show up anymore.  It was hard enough to imagine that he found a gen caseback.

 

It's hard to get pricing on a mint Newman.  Every time I see one listed for sale, it's always POA for the price.  Maybe they could be between $100 - $150K.

 

Would you know if these are the rare exceptions?  They don't really seem to be any different than many of ones listed on chrono24.com.

 

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080515/293 $360,000

 

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/HK080117/1111?fromSearch=6263&searchPage=1  $502,000

 

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080117/235?fromSearch=6263&searchPage=1  $580,000

 

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Sorry for the confusion.  I was referring to the entire watch, not just the dial.  If I could find a dial, it would be incredible.  My watch builder hesitated a couple years ago at $15K for a dial and he missed it.  Now he's kicking himself (obviously) since they never show up anymore.  It was hard enough to imagine that he found a gen caseback.
 
It's hard to get pricing on a mint Newman.  Every time I see one listed for sale, it's always POA for the price.  Maybe they could be between $100 - $150K.
 
Would you know if these are the rare exceptions?  They don't really seem to be any different than many of ones listed on chrono24.com.
 
https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080515/293 $360,000
 
https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/HK080117/1111?fromSearch=6263&searchPage=1  $502,000
 
https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080117/235?fromSearch=6263&searchPage=1  $580,000
 
I cant understand why the copies have the red daytona on the watch face when it is clearly absent from the paul newman. Not even a fairly close copy can i find. And no Yoda am i not.

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On 08/09/2017 at 10:24 AM, RobU said:

Sorry for the confusion.  I was referring to the entire watch, not just the dial.  If I could find a dial, it would be incredible.  My watch builder hesitated a couple years ago at $15K for a dial and he missed it.  Now he's kicking himself (obviously) since they never show up anymore.  It was hard enough to imagine that he found a gen caseback.

 

It's hard to get pricing on a mint Newman.  Every time I see one listed for sale, it's always POA for the price.  Maybe they could be between $100 - $150K.

 

Would you know if these are the rare exceptions?  They don't really seem to be any different than many of ones listed on chrono24.com.

 

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080515/293 $360,000

 

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/HK080117/1111?fromSearch=6263&searchPage=1  $502,000

 

https://www.phillips.com/detail/ROLEX/CH080117/235?fromSearch=6263&searchPage=1  $580,000

 

Sorry bro that you trusted TheSociety, he is full of [censored]...
Claimed to have his own source for case and dial which is a major lie, he even claimed to have his dial maker re-done the black Singer prototype which was made by Jensen. I was the one ordering the dial to Jensen which made 2 of them, and then the Society said he had to have it redone as it wasn't purple enought...

Ahahaha what a lie.

He even sold me an NDT 6263 case for $900 claiming it was a Phong case.

Glad you like your watch, it's a beautiful watch, too bad you over paid for it :(

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16 minutes ago, Carlytoss said:

Sorry bro that you trusted TheSociety, he is full of [censored]...
Claimed to have his own source for case and dial which is a major lie, he even claimed to have his dial maker re-done the black Singer prototype which was made by Jensen. I was the one ordering the dial to Jensen which made 2 of them, and then the Society said he had to have it redone as it wasn't purple enought...

Ahahaha what a lie.

He even sold me an NDT 6263 case for $900 claiming it was a Phong case.

Glad you like your watch, it's a beautiful watch, too bad you over paid for it :(

Sorry you ordered a case from him, then you modified it, and then asked for a refund and got bent when he would give you a partial refund because you modified the case. Then you go MIA and bad mouth him on the forums.

For him to even offer any type of refund shows how much of a stand-up guy he is.

 

I'm done with this forum. Nothing but haters.

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For him to even offer any type of refund shows how much of a stand-up guy he is.

Ona case he lied about??? He should have offer a full refund.
I’m just warning other members about this guy not following forum rules, back door selling and lying about his own case and dials
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