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Caci

5513 Project

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I acquired a 5513 case & back in very rough condition (back appears to have been removed with a chisel or punch).  The back is non-salvageable.

I have an insert (not sure of model) and the dial in the photos is (OP DATE, although obviously meant to be a 5512)

I have installed a gen Triplock Crown & Tube, along with a plexi.

I have since put together a 1570 with the date components removed and it is serviced and running.

I need the following to complete:

1. Dial

2. Hands

3. Case Back

4. Bezel assembly (retainer is questionable)

 

I just want to end up with a functioning watch that I can stand to look at, without the expense of additional genuine parts.

 

The case dates to 1967.

Meters first dial, right? Gilt?

I’d like to stick with whatever dial was appropriate to my year.

Reasonably aged color, prefer luminous.

 

Is there a “one stop” source for the dial & hands so that the colors will match?  I looked at Yuki’s and they have several 5513 dials (“gilt”, Explorer, meters first, white, aged, etc.), but I only saw 1 set of hands, which are aged and fir 3035/3135 - will those even fit 15XX movements?

 

There are are several eBay sellers with bezel parts/assemblies- again, I would like to lean toward proper configuration.

 

I’m not prepared to pay $8-1200 for a genuine case back and wonder if there is an alternative that will properly seal the case.

 

I know I’m taking the shortcut, as there is lots of good information to search here, but am looking for some help.

 

thanks,

Chris

 

88D6C1EA-E2AA-47CB-B751-5841B44B9FCA.jpeg

1A281312-6C75-4B46-A92A-98EEB8182647.jpeg

8A6F50CB-DCCA-4FD1-B11D-E91D675CE5F4.jpeg

5DF6E37D-8128-4919-944C-4CA6F84AF8AF.jpeg

583CE114-29DE-4F69-A88C-C82B78E60BCD.jpeg

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Nice! If I were you I d go with a vietnam caseback until you find a gen one. The case itself you could leave as it is (cleane it properly and replace the springbars).

For a dial I would consider a gen one since you are using a gen dial. Meanwhile I‘d use a nice vietnam (there are better than yuki) dial so you can take your time to find the right and also period correct dial.

Good luck with your build :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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2 minutes ago, marqtz said:

What is the size, diameter of the retainer you are looking for?

Don’t know - current retainer may be good for bezel assembly to be purchased.  I assume it is factory spec.

 

I can buy an assembly (less retainer) for $70-80 on eBay. 

Complete, with retainer, $80-150.

 

The bezel insert shown in my photos may be better than any aftermarket I can buy - so, waiting for someone to chime in.

 

Thanks

Chrus

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6 hours ago, sputim said:

Nice! If I were you I d go with a vietnam caseback until you find a gen one. The case itself you could leave as it is (cleane it properly and replace the springbars).

For a dial I would consider a gen one since you are using a gen dial. Meanwhile I‘d use a nice vietnam (there are better than yuki) dial so you can take your time to find the right and also period correct dial.

Good luck with your build :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you mean use gen dial, since gen movement & case?

 

Exactly which style dial is correct for this 3rd quarter ‘67 case?

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2 hours ago, Lucacoach81 said:

bc883f8739265efc99461afc2663369f.jpgd239f223b0b0c0b10f457767579caebe.jpg

Hello! For inspiration... Mine built 5513.
I Love it!


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OK, very nice. Hands/dial/bezel//insert - source?

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OK, very nice. Hands/dial/bezel//insert - source?

Assembled with:
-case,dial and hands from a seller in another rep forum.
-Aftermarket crown
-Rivet bracelet on Yuki
-movement DG 2813 on eBay


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I was hoping to get some input on where to get a good dial/handset, but...

 

I’m thinking about Yuki. They have a matte, meters first (seems the be the proper style). The White is too white and the Yellow is...too yellow.

is there a way I can uniformly age the white dial & hands, for a tan color?

Are there dials/hands actually luminous?

I also see that Yuki sells a 5513 case back for $200 - seems reasonable.

WSO990 sells a Bezel/Insert/Spring with a proper lume pip (no metal rim) for about $100.

Anyone out there have opinions on these parts or have a better recommendation?

 

thanks, Chris

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Unfortunately, the triangle marker at 12 is too stubby/wide on the Yuki meters first dial. It will bug you when you start comparing it to a gen. You may prefer to go for a MQ dial instead. More expensive, but closer to a gen.
http://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1093&category_id=146&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

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5 hours ago, Caci said:

I was hoping to get some input on where to get a good dial/handset, but...

 

I’m thinking about Yuki. They have a matte, meters first (seems the be the proper style). The White is too white and the Yellow is...too yellow.

is there a way I can uniformly age the white dial & hands, for a tan color?

Are there dials/hands actually luminous?

I also see that Yuki sells a 5513 case back for $200 - seems reasonable.

WSO990 sells a Bezel/Insert/Spring with a proper lume pip (no metal rim) for about $100.

Anyone out there have opinions on these parts or have a better recommendation?

 

thanks, Chris

WSO parts are garbage. Bought many, returned all. I would stay away.

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4 minutes ago, highoeyazmuhudee said:

WSO parts are garbage. Bought many, returned all. I would stay away.

Thank you!

Whom can you recommend for a Bezel/Insert/Spring?

14 minutes ago, jackflash said:

Unfortunately, the triangle marker at 12 is too short on the Yuki meters first dial. It will bug you when you start comparing it to a gen. You may prefer to go for a MQ dial instead. More expensive, but closer to a gen.
http://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1093&category_id=146&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

Thank you! Exactly the type of input I was hoping for.  How about hands (flat?) to go with that dial?

I’ve emailed MQ for price and details on hands.

Still looking for recommendations on Bezel/Insert/Spring.

 

Chris

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I haven't had a problem with the WSO bezel assembly in the past. If you don't go for gen, I would go for a Yuki insert and either a Yuki or Athaya pearl. Yuki's is way overpriced but better finished, the Athaya pearl needs access plastic trimmed, it's just as good as Yuki's when done. While you are at Athaya they have decent 700 crowns too. Part links below:

 

WSO bezel assembly:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEZEL-INSERT-SPRING-RETAINING-OLD-ROLEX-SUBMARINER-5513-1680-S-STEEL-BLACK-/160658405953?hash=item2567fcba41

 

Yuki insert:

http://www.yukiwatch.com/catalog/item/9020785/10270361.htm

 

Athaya pearl:

http://parts.athayavintage.com/product/aftermarket-rolex-pearl-dot-pips/

 

Athaya 700 crown and tube:

http://parts.athayavintage.com/product/aftermarket-700-crown-and-tube/

 

Here’s a shot of the WSO bezel assembly on my 5517 with a T19 service crystal:

f37b18cda67b5acc6079148cbb2292cb.jpg&key=e68149a1c1fed675ccd08e5d7aa1c6849bf11d80762baf65957c5958eb98c76e

 

And the Yuki insert on my MBW 5513, also with WSO 580 endlinks and gen-spec 2mm springbars. Helenarou dial with re-worked lume, ETA 2846 movement with mixed handset (Clark & Rafflestime):

ad8d5090d1832398363ea49066956a3e.jpg

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28 minutes ago, jackflash said:

I haven't had a problem with the WSO bezel assembly in the past. If you don't go for gen, I would go for a Yuki insert and either a Yuki or Athaya pearl. Yuki's is way overpriced but better finished, the Athaya pearl needs access plastic trimmed, it's just as good as Yuki's when done. While you are at Athaya they have decent 700 crowns too. Part links below:

 

WSO bezel assembly:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEZEL-INSERT-SPRING-RETAINING-OLD-ROLEX-SUBMARINER-5513-1680-S-STEEL-BLACK-/160658405953?hash=item2567fcba41

 

Yuki insert:

http://www.yukiwatch.com/catalog/item/9020785/10270361.htm

 

Athaya pearl:

http://parts.athayavintage.com/product/aftermarket-rolex-pearl-dot-pips/

 

Athaya 700 crown and tube:

http://parts.athayavintage.com/product/aftermarket-700-crown-and-tube/

 

Here’s a shot of the WSO bezel assembly on my 5517 with a T19 service crystal:

f37b18cda67b5acc6079148cbb2292cb.jpg&key=e68149a1c1fed675ccd08e5d7aa1c6849bf11d80762baf65957c5958eb98c76e

 

And the Yuki insert on my MBW 5513, also with WSO 580 endlinks and gen-spec 2mm springbars. Helenarou dial with re-worked lume, ETA 2846 movement with mixed handset (Clark & Rafflestime):

ad8d5090d1832398363ea49066956a3e.jpg

Well, I pulled the trigger on a WSO Bezel & Insert with plastic- rimmed pearl - I’ll see how it works out.

Just installed gen 703 Crown & Tube.

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17 hours ago, highoeyazmuhudee said:

WSO parts are garbage. Bought many, returned all. I would stay away.

Ditto Ditto Ditto (search out 'Mr. Slimeball' for details).

As for dials, hands and casebacks, unfortunately, after the movement, those are the most costly components. If you have the cash, only a gen dial would do. If you spend alot on an aftermarket dial, eventually, you will end up having wasted that money when you end up biting the bullet & replacing it with a gen (by which time will cost 200% more than it will cost today).

Same with hands, which can often be found on ebay or the vintagerolexforum sales pages.

For a caseback, due to the scarcity/cost of a gen, I think your best bet is simply to purchase a good rep with a caseback that is made to gen specs. Alternatively, you can try either Phong or Yuki, because they used to offer gen-sized backs. However, be prepared to pay handsomely for them. For that reason, especially since a Sub caseback is a plain-Jane affair that is very difficult to ID on an otherwise gen-looking watch, I think the rep caseback is the way to go.

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On 10/26/2017 at 3:59 PM, freddy333 said:

Ditto Ditto Ditto (search out 'Mr. Slimeball' for details).

As for dials, hands and casebacks, unfortunately, after the movement, those are the most costly components. If you have the cash, only a gen dial would do. If you spend alot on an aftermarket dial, eventually, you will end up having wasted that money when you end up biting the bullet & replacing it with a gen (by which time will cost 200% more than it will cost today).

Same with hands, which can often be found on ebay or the vintagerolexforum sales pages.

For a caseback, due to the scarcity/cost of a gen, I think your best bet is simply to purchase a good rep with a caseback that is made to gen specs. Alternatively, you can try either Phong or Yuki, because they used to offer gen-sized backs. However, be prepared to pay handsomely for them. For that reason, especially since a Sub caseback is a plain-Jane affair that is very difficult to ID on an otherwise gen-looking watch, I think the rep caseback is the way to go.

Thanks for the advice.

 

I’m estimating that it would take $1500-3500 for a dial, $400-1000 for hands, bezel insert $1000-3000 (I haven’t seen a genuine, vintage BEZEL for sale).

So, $3000-7500 for dial/hands/Insert.

Sound about right?

 

Original case backs seem to be $900-1500.

 

MQ quoted me (no prices on website) the following:

 

1. Price for One Set Hands Rolex Submeriner White Lume is 250USD
 
2. Price for One Set Hands Vintage Rolex Submariner Patina (aged) Lume  is 250USD
 
 3. Price for Insert for Rolex Submariner Ref 1665,1680,5512,5513,6536 is 150USD
 
4. Price for One set Bezel & Insert with Dot Patina For Vintage Rolex Submariner Ref 5512 - 5513 is 250USD
 
5. Price for Rolex Dial Submariner ref 5512-5513 old Patina 200m First Professionally Refinished  is 320USD
 
6. Price for Case Back Submariner Ref 5513 Year IV.64 Original Rare ! Stock #09-CRO is 2200USD
 
So, MQ dial/hands/insert would be $720+ shipping (+ $100 for bezel Ring).
 
Yuki has case back for $230 shipped. (Inferior dial/handset + insert about $155.)
 
Regarding a complete rep for it’s case back, any recommendations for whose would be a good candidate to fit my original case?
 
Besides, I have a 1570 (SCOC) vs. 1520 movement - so, not going to get to an original 5513, anyway. 
 
In summary:
 
Genuine parts, to complete = $4000-9000 (bezel ring, unknown)
 
MQ = about $1100
 
“On the Cheap”
(Yuki + WSO) = about $500 (including on-the-way WSO Bezel assembly)
 
 
So, in the words of Ricky Ricardo,
“I got some ‘ciding to do!”
 
As glamorous as it would be to have all genuine/original parts, I think that it would be way to much in a franken.
 
Chris
 

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2 hours ago, Caci said:

Thanks for the advice.

I’m estimating that it would take $1500-3500 for a dial, $400-1000 for hands, bezel insert $1000-3000 (I haven’t seen a genuine, vintage BEZEL for sale).

So, $3000-7500 for dial/hands/Insert.

Sound about right?

Original case backs seem to be $900-1500.MQ quoted me (no prices on website) the following:

Genuine parts, to complete = $4000-9000 (bezel ring, unknown)
MQ = about $1100
“On the Cheap”
(Yuki + WSO) = about $500 (including on-the-way WSO Bezel assembly)

I have not purchased any dials (Daytonas only) from MQ recently, but, unless he now has a budget line, most of his reasonably accurate dials started $1k. So I cannot offer much guidance there. Yuki stuff, again as I have not purchased anything from him in several years, is usually good quality. Hopefully, another member with more recent aftermarket parts purchase experience can offer more specific insights.
Your gen pricing seems about right.

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11 minutes ago, freddy333 said:

I have not purchased any dials (Daytonas only) from MQ recently, but, unless he now has a budget line, most of his reasonably accurate dials started $1k. So I cannot offer much guidance there. Yuki stuff, again as I have not purchased anything from him in several years, is usually good quality. Hopefully, another member with more recent aftermarket parts purchase experience can offer more specific insights.
Your gen pricing seems about right.

Freddy,

 

He’s quoting me $320 on this dial, which is described as “Professionally Refinished”

 

http://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1096&category_id=146&keyword=5513&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

 

I also asked about this White Meters First, but he did not quote me in his reply. I’ve since asked again for a price.

 

http://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1093&category_id=146&keyword=5513&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

 

Maybe same price? But won’t assume anything at this point.

 

I STILL haven’t decided on White or Aged, but either of these dials look pretty good to me...

 

I can’t tell from his photos if his $250(!) Refinished hands are flat or curved.  I’ve asked him about that and my desire to get matching dial/hands but he is pretty brief and did not answer my question.

 

Here are the hands:

 

“Patina”

http://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=629&category_id=130&keyword=5513&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

 

“White”

http://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=748&category_id=130&keyword=5513&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

 

 

ALSO, I tried to ask him if his re-fin dials are luminous, but did not answer.  Does anyone know if they are - that’s a plus for me on this project.

 

My wife is Vietnamese, perhaps he would correspond via Skype...

 

 

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His three hand dials are cheaper than the six hand ones, which probably reflects the extra work in getting a Daytona anywhere near right.

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Based on the price you quoted, I would go with the patina dial & keep searching for gen hands (MQ's second had lacks the taper that IDs it as non-gen).

For reference, here is my gen -

 

5514dial+1.jpg

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@freddy333 what about Micheal Young for hands? I have a set for a 6538 and the second hand has a lovely taper. Nothing beats gen, but if budget is a concern these might pass muster.

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Sorry guys... I may be OT here, but... which Submariner has the "meter" before the "feet" on the dial? (5512 only?)

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5513 definitely had both. I seem to remembered it was to do with the market the Watch was sold in, metric countries mostly got Metres first, imperial countries mostly got feet first, with the usual caveat that nothing is set in stone with vintage Rolex and almost anything can and did happen

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I thought that meters first dials came first and then later feet first came around as an accommodation to the American market. I'm thinking the change occurred in the late 60s. 

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4 minutes ago, alligoat said:

I thought that meters first dials came first and then later feet first came around as an accommodation to the American market. I'm thinking the change occurred in the late 60s. 

Meters first were “FIRST”.

They were changed to “Feet First” for marketing purposes, as “660” is bigger, better, longer, stronger, etc. than “200”.

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