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thegrail

Eta 2824-2 second hand stopping?

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I recently bought a Franken Tudor date day from this site, I have a problem with the second sticking every 50 seconds or so? A little nudge and it starts again for another 50 seconds, my watch guy has had a look at it, but I’ve now stopped him as he’s told me the watch has been very poorly put together with dial just held on with hands, as no posts on dial and it’s also not a genuine Tudor watch  dial as it was sold to me, I’ve told my watch guy put it back together,  for the minute but any idea what can be causing this odd fault? 

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Does it stop at the same spot each time? Does the movement still stop when de-cased?

 

B

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Good morning. That’s. a 2834-2 movement. The 2824 only has a date function. Most likely the cause is in the drive train. Could be a piece of lint or dirt catching at the same spot. Most likely on your second wheel since it’s the only gear to make a full revolution every 60 seconds. Remove your rotor assy and ck it to see if you see a bad tooth or something else. It’s not the only thing that can stop  it every minute, but it’s a good starting point. 

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Yes, everything on top will usually function just as it should, The drive train controls the running of the watch. Of course almost any part can cause it to stop. While those cases are rare, there are the most common causes and you ck them first. While it seems serious, usually it's related to a specific area. In this case, since you have made sure the dial and hands are clear, you want to go to the most obvious section  responsible for 99% of all stopped automatics, the drive train. The fact that a tiny flick will start it again indicates a bind of sorts in the same place. Again, best thing to do is take a look. Remove the rotor assy. That will expose part of the drive train. Start it and just look at the second wheel as it turns. You may see something on it, or maybe a bad tooth. If not, the train bridge should come off to inspect the other gears. It's just the beginning. Again, probably something simple, so don't try to make it more complicated than it already is. Good luck

For some reason your picture won't stay loaded, for me at least. I see some nicks on your dial by the hour wheel. It also appears like the dial is shifted right from center. This could be a problem area. Can you remove the hands and remove the dial and then ck to see if it stops? I would do that.

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my watch guy removed the dial today and took rotor of but could not see anything, the dial was damaged from when it came and is only being held onto the watch by the hands, no feet on the dial, not very well put togther and certainly not as described to me.imageproxy.php?img=&key=42d035e53dc34051imageproxy.php?img=&key=42d035e53dc34051

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When I say rotor assy, that means the auto wind too. The 2 black screws hold that. The dial with no feet really shouldn’t affect it. When the movement and mounting ring are tight, they put pressure against the dial and keep it from moving. The dial sits in a groove below the rehaut. Remove the autowind and look at it. 

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11 hours ago, thegrail said:

I recently bought a Franken Tudor date day from this site, I have a problem with the second sticking every 50 seconds or so? A little nudge and it starts again for another 50 seconds, my watch guy has had a look at it, but I’ve now stopped him as he’s told me the watch has been very poorly put together with dial just held on with hands, as no posts on dial and it’s also not a genuine Tudor watch  dial as it was sold to me, I’ve told my watch guy put it back together,  for the minute but any idea what can be causing this odd fault? 

 

For a start that is not a eta 2824-2!  It is the day/date eta 2834-2!! 

 

A dial with no feet or broken feet is problems with a capital "P".  Even dial dots will move the dial with just pulling out the stem to set the time or date!  Believe me I have had this problem!  As mymanmatt. Has suggested it could be in the drive train!  

 

To give you an analogy of my problem is that if the dial is not fixed firmly onto the movement, it will play both sideways and in some cases forwards towards the Rehaut of the case walls, putting extra force onto the hands and just enough to interfere with the seconds wheel post, especially if the movement holder is not tightly screwed in the case.. My seconds hand was also a culprit as there was extra friction from the minute hand as the dial was not firm. I resolved my problem by putting a couple of dial feet which I bought from carbinet on ebay and after using jb weld and shaping them to size I managed to get some hold of the dial onto the movement!  Not the ideal solution but the next best thing as the can break off at any moment. When I carefully assembled it with minimising any pressure, I then used some tape under my movement holder to beef it up so that the case clamps( another pain in the a$&) could hold the movement onto the dial into case with plenty of pressure to avoid any possibility if any such play from a loose dial.   Also a loose dial will also interfere with the bases of your hands stems!  As of then it is still ticking!  I am still looking for a new dial but mine is hard to find  a size 28.5mm.  Good luck and see how you go

 

 

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To further add as a clarification which after reading my response which I wasn't able to edit:

 

the dial itself once installed into the case is not the problem, but more so that the movement plays backwards and forwards and even sideways , especially if not held firm into the back of the dial.  Mymanmatt is correct in his suggestion that the dial with no feet should still work,  But...... Working with it and pressing the hands properly so that they do not interfere with each other while simultaneously getting the hour hand positioning to click at midnight  on your first first go will be the hit or the miss as you somehow need to keep the dial firm while working on it! The loose dial while not held firm into the case with the movement will act just like the plunger hand removal tool .  The loose dial will have the tendency to lift the hands off the movement which is what tends to happen if mvt holder and case clamps are not firm enough!  The movement will also tend to shift the centre of where the hands are  pressed on if not firm!, especially when using the crown! My movement was moving backwards and forwards where the hands posts were being interfered with on which was putting friction on the seconds hand!  My movt holder just did not hold it firm enough regardless of how tight I screwed clamp screws

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I noticed you have the movement ring that comes with a 2834-2. That is a good fitting ring both to the movement and most cases. You can epoxy the dial to that ring. You can also put some feet back on your dial. Feet are readily available online and ebay. Install the feet in your movement, then epoxy them to the dial , position the dial correctly and let cure. You will need to notch the movement ring where the feet go so the new feet are flush with the top of the movement ring.

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13 hours ago, mymanmatt said:

I noticed you have the movement ring that comes with a 2834-2. That is a good fitting ring both to the movement and most cases. You can epoxy the dial to that ring. You can also put some feet back on your dial. Feet are readily available online and ebay. Install the feet in your movement, then epoxy them to the dial , position the dial correctly and let cure. You will need to notch the movement ring where the feet go so the new feet are flush with the top of the movement ring.

Now that is a very clever suggestion!  I was unaware of the eta 2834-2 having that plastic ring as all those xx34-2 movements that I had all were without the day ring!  I guess that the plastic ring could  also serve as a substitute for the brass raffles ring when they are not readily available!  Not sure if it would fit in a submariner case made for a 2836-2?

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That’s what my watch guy done he glued it to plastic part so at least it’s solid it’s all fixed now, dirt was the cause in the end something bunged up somewhere.

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1 hour ago, thegrail said:

That’s what my watch guy done he glued it to plastic part so at least it’s solid it’s all fixed now, dirt was the cause in the end something bunged up somewhere.

 

That is great to hear!  Glad it was sorted out!  Mymanmatt was right!  Some dirt may have been caught in the drive train!  

 

It was also lucky that it was the 2834-2 and not the 2836-2!  The plastic spacer in the 2834 must hold in the movement somewhere as it comes as a fixed part with the movement!  Had it been a 2836-2 as it was in my case then, you are really only left with cementing dial feet as there is hardly any area to glue he dial on movement.

 

The only unknown to me is if it is possible to place a plastic spacer from a 2834-2 to a 2836-2 as the are essentially the same mechanism where the only difference I see is that one has a day ring outside the circumference of the movement and the other has it in the interior of the same planar circumference!  Hopefully those who have worked on both can tune me in as this would solve a lot of dial fee issues for most of us here:confused:  BTW this has been a very interesting post!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, horologist said:

 

The only unknown to me is if it is possible to place a plastic spacer from a 2834-2 to a 2836-2 as the are essentially the same mechanism where the only difference I see is that one has a day ring outside the circumference of the movement and the other has it in the interior of the same planar circumference!  Hopefully those who have worked on both can tune me in as this would solve a lot of dial fee issues for most of us here:confused:  BTW this has been a very interesting post!

 

 

I hope not to hijack this post but since  the issue of the OP has been resolved, I believe this is a very interesting question which I haven't any recollection on this forum since I first became a member.

 

my understanding is that a 2834-2 can be reconfigured into a 2836-2 by removing plastic ring and day wheel,.  I cannot see how the inverse operation in creating a 2834-2 from a 2836-2 is not possible unless someone can spare some information here!  

 

Suppose you have a 2834-2 and a dial without feet, gluing a dial directly onto one of these plastic rings must not interfere with the dial window diameter of your case.  Supposing  you have a 28.5 mm dial and the widest diameter of your dial window is 29mm, the plastic spacer must allow some clearance  between the dial thickness and the  plastic ring so that the plastic ring does not heave the dial from directly sitting on the shoulders of the dial window seat (as plastic ring diameter is 29.4mm).  This may run inti to problems with the stem alignment!  If your dial is exactly 29.4mm and you have the right diameter dial window in your case, then you may have nailed it well!  Just be cautious!

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"Suppose you have a 2834-2 and a dial without feet, gluing a dial directly onto one of these plastic rings must not interfere with the dial window diameter of your case."

 

I have done something similar a few times...machine a brass movement spacer that is a close fit on the movement and a close fit in the case with a ledge at the top for the dial to mount on and glue the dial to the spacer or use the infamous 'dial dots'.  Next, bend the case clamps so they will apply quite a bit of pressure on the movement to keep everything in place.

(The dial was originally made to fit a rlx 15xx movement)

 

This is how I mounted the movement and dial in my JMB '1016'.  I used a 2824/2846 combo movement...2824 plates with 2846 running gear to make a thin 21600 bph movement that fits in the case made for a 2824.

I never used a 2834 spacer but it sounds like a very good idea.

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4 hours ago, automatico said:

 

I have done something similar a few times...machine a brass movement spacer that is a close fit on the movement and a close fit in the case with a ledge at the top for the dial to mount on and glue the dial to the spacer or use the infamous 'dial dots'. 

I never used a 2834 spacer but it sounds like a very good idea.

 

So does your idea!  A brass spacer sounds quite solid and you can use whatever cement you wish as you would be adhering metal upon metal, whereas plastic has very limited choices of appropriate glues.  I opted for the plastic spacer purely because it sits rigidly as part of the movement and once the dial is adhered, it stays firm to be worked on without the chances of it moving.  The plastic spacer also has holes for dial feet and I would cement another pair of dal feet onto dial as extra backup to a total of 4 which includes ones that sit in the movement!

My question is your brass spacer would be held by bent case clamps onto the movement to the dial while you are working on it?

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