Yuki dial vs Cartel dial

[chriz74]

How good is a Yuki if compared to the Cartel one really? Can the ETA one be installed on the 2183 ?

Also, are there better options for ETA than Yuki?

[oldtools]

What dial are you looking at? Yuki has many to choose from. If you want the dial feet in the ETA position, you don't have many options besides Yuki. Helearou has dials for ETA. They will sell you a Rolex dial when you order their "custom logo and text printing"

https://helenarou.com/eta-2828242836.html

[chriz74]

Yes, I’m talking about Yuki ETA 1680 dial. Is it better than Cartel? And is Helenarou better? Are writings more like gen?

[Nanuq]

40 minutes ago, chriz74 said:

How good is a Yuki if compared to the Cartel one really? Can the ETA one be installed on the 2183 ?

Also, are there better options for ETA than Yuki?

 

When you're starting out in this hobby everything looks great and no matter what you buy, you wear it proudly.  Over time you become more familiar with how the genuine watches look, and become familiar with their details.  Then you notice your watch doesn't quite have those details right, and you get the itch.  Then you're off on the pursuit of incrementally improving your watch.  

 

It's great fun, and there's really very few permanent answers, because the parts people are always improving too.  So "who's best?" changes.  But in rough terms there are categories of Junk, Mediocre, High End and Nosebleed.  Prices go up exponentially as you move left to right, and parts become distinguishable from genuine only under a good quality loupe.

 

For example a 2183 is a fine workhorse movement, but an ETA is better.  An ETA is a fine workhorse movement but genuine is better.  But which one are you willing to soak in the ocean when your seals fail?

 

It's all in the details.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sogeha]

@chriz74 I’m not mocking or belittling you, we all started out sometime and even our most legendary experts knew nothing once. If you can’t currently easily spot which dials or other parts are better than what you currently have, then read and learn, enjoy your watch and rock the shit out of it, knowing that pretty much nobody else can tell either. As long as you don’t go looking for trouble flashing it off and claiming it is genuine it is unlikely to get much if any comment. Enjoy the beginning of a long and enjoyable hobby while it is cheap. Buying upgrade parts without an eye to match, just leads one on a wild orgy of wasted money, ask me how I know

 

When you can no longer look at a part of your watch without seeing faults you can not live with, then you will know what you need to upgrade with and that answer is always different. Some are more fussy than others, some can spend more and sometimes you just don’t need a particular watch to be the $6000 franken to get pleasure from it. The only wrong answers to those questions are those you take from someone else without knowing why

[Nanuq]

And once you find The One that you simply cannot live without (it changes week to week) don't make the mistake of buying something else that's "almost as good".  Because you'll do that 2 or 3 times and eventually get The One anyway, and will have wasted a bunch of money getting there.  Ask me how I know.

 

[chriz74]

I’ll try to explain better. Who makes dials that are identical or very close in regards to fonts and logo in the writing? I think Cartel is quite close to 1680 red mkiv or mkv dial (can’t remember which one).

[Sogeha]

The cartel dial isn’t terrible, but the lume pretty much is

fakes are never identical, it is simply an impossibility from a production point of view, never mind cost constraints. The good ones are so close that only a very few can tell and usually under close inspection and magnification, but there always will be differences 

 

Also remember that even if you fit a genuine dial to a Cartel, those that can tell the dials apart can tell the case, hands, crown, bezel, insert, date wheel and crystal apart just as easily 

 

As the old tuning shop slogan said, “Speed is just a matter of money, now how fast do you want to go?”

[automatico]

Q..."How good is a Yuki (dial) if compared to the Cartel one really?"

 

A..."The cartel dial isn’t terrible, but the lume pretty much is, fakes are never identical, it is simply an impossibility from a production point of view, never mind cost constraints."

 

I agree.  Lower tier cartel watch lume is probably the lowest grade lumey toon stuff they can get...about one step up from glow in the dark lipstick.   

 

Yuki dials are almost always better than cartel dials in my experience.  I have a few assorted Yuki dials from 6 or 8 years ago up to  3 or 4 years ago and most of them are pretty good.  One exception is a pair of '5512' dials with ratty printing...the letters look like  ''''''''''''"  under magnification, not a solid line, and the letters appear dimmer than usual because of the segmented lines.  Also have a Yuki '5512' dial with very good letters but the lume has a green tint to it that looks a bit too green for me.  Otoh I have another Yuki '5512' serif dial that is as good as any aftmkt dial I have owned.

I had a woody for 5512s a while back.

 

Have a higher $$ 1655 dial (can not remember where it came from) that is not much better than the average cartel '1655' dial and have a Phong '1655' dial that is very, very good.  The higher $$ dials can be hit or miss imho and the best aftmkt dials that I have came from 'IG44' but that seller is long gone.

Basically, with dials it's the luck of the draw and how critical you are. 

 

"The good ones are so close that only a very few can tell and usually under close inspection and magnification, but there always will be differences."

 

True. 

 

I have one genuine Lemrich 'Mk I' 1680 dial and if you compare it to a very good aftmkt dial you can see a difference but mostly due to it being 40+ years old, the lettering etc on a very good high $$ aftmkt dial is very close.

 

"Can the ETA one be installed on the 2183?"

 

If you mean a common Miyotaclone 2813...not without cutting the dial feet off.

 

 

"When you're starting out in this hobby everything looks great and no matter what you buy, you wear it proudly."

 

Thanks to RWG (and Nanuq) I am becoming a seasoned repliker collectiker.  Now I wear my quartz submareener after dark instead of in broad daylight.

[Nanuq]

12 minutes ago, automatico said:

Thanks to RWG (and Nanuq) I am becoming a seasoned repliker collectiker.  Now I wear my quartz submareener after dark instead of in broad daylight.

 

When I was young and stupid(er) I was on a business trip to Puerto Rico and ran across a guy selling Submariners with (gasp) AUTOMATIC MOVEMENTS.  I had to have one.  I wore it proudly, constantly mesmerized by the dark blue of its dial and bezel insert.  It was breathtaking.  

 

So walking home from work one day I passed by Ben Bridge jewelers in downtown Seattle, the Rolex Authorized Dealer.  I went in and admired their watches, tut-tuting under my breath that they were all black.  All missing that distinctive and handsome deep blue tint.  To my eye they were otherwise identical.  The sales girl sauntered over and I allowed my lovely blue Submariner to peek out from my sleeve.  She immediately spotted it, and sizing me up as a man to be reckoned with, asked if she could hold it?  I gingerly handed it over and she looked it over, then asked if I was happy with it?  I said yes, but admitted it does gain a bit during 24 hours.  Like 5 minutes.  So she took it back to their watchmaker in the back room and wasn't gone very long before she came back, holding it at arm's length like the rotting corpse of a dead fish.  She handed it back and said "you know, that's not a real Rolex".  Truer words were never spoken!  I drew myself up to my full stature and said "of course not!  the money I saved on my purchase paid for the trip where I bought it".

 

 

Sheesh.  It's amazing I survived my youth and stupidity.

[Sogeha]

My cheap Submariner looks fantastic in the dark. Even the lume is none existent just like a forty year old genuine one. Best $15 I ever spent

I love it so much I put a genuine Swiss movement in it

 

 

 

 

and a genuine Japanese battery 🤪

 

like i said, sometimes you need to spend a lot of money to get what you want and sometimes something cheap is fun. The really funny thing is friends and family can’t tell the $15 the DHGate at $120, the JF at $400 or the genuine one apart

[chriz74]

12 hours ago, Sogeha said:

The cartel dial isn’t terrible, but the lume pretty much is

fakes are never identical, it is simply an impossibility from a production point of view, never mind cost constraints.

that sonething I don’t get. The writings are printed with sponge printing or something. Just take an original dial and scan the writings then create a perfect replica in software like Adobe Illustrator (Vector graphics) and make the stamp. Boom, you have the perfect stamp. 

[Nanuq]

1 hour ago, chriz74 said:

that sonething I don’t get. The writings are printed with sponge printing or something. Just take an original dial and scan the writings then create a perfect replica in software like Adobe Illustrator (Vector graphics) and make the stamp. Boom, you have the perfect stamp. 

 

We have members here that have done that with cases for Rolex 5514 COMEX and dials for Rolex Submariners.  They labored over details and absolutely perfected them with software, then farmed them out for limited production.  When they were ready people snapped them up and to this day they're utterly perfect.

 

Sure, it can be done.  It has been done.  Stick around, and you'll see it happen again.  Until then we have to make do with "good enough".  

[Sogeha]

1 hour ago, chriz74 said:

that sonething I don’t get. The writings are printed with sponge printing or something. Just take an original dial and scan the writings then create a perfect replica in software like Adobe Illustrator (Vector graphics) and make the stamp. Boom, you have the perfect stamp. 

 

If it were that simple guys would have done it many years ago. I spent twenty odd years in industrial robotics for big pharma. Multinationals like standard production, and to all intents and purposes it usually is. However if one really knows and looks at the product and package one can always tell which machine and therefore which production line in which factory the particular product or packaging was produced on

3 minutes ago, Nanuq said:

 

We have members here that have done that with cases for Rolex 5514 COMEX and dials for Rolex Submariners.  They labored over details and absolutely perfected them with software, then farmed them out for limited production.  When they were ready people snapped them up and to this day they're utterly perfect.

 

Sure, it can be done.  It has been done.  Stick around, and you'll see it happen again.  Until then we have to make do with "good enough".  

 

Those dials are awesome, but you and I know there are plenty of guys can tell them apart 

 

 

I actually wouldn’t want something made that nobody could ever tell from real, there are enough scammers as it is and that is not what this hobby is about, neither is it something our members have any time for

[HandsUpDontShoot]

Learning about watches, vintage or rep, is a terrific jaunt down a rabbit hole. Before joining this forum, I thought I knew a lot about vintage Rolex and rep; I know nothing compared to some gents here ... I am Jon Snow.

[Sogeha]

56 minutes ago, HandsUpDontShoot said:

Learning about watches, vintage or rep, is a terrific jaunt down a rabbit hole. Before joining this forum, I thought I knew a lot about vintage Rolex and rep; I know nothing compared to some gents here ... I am Jon Snow.

 

Like everything else, the more you learn, the more you realise you don’t know 

[Nanuq]

At the rate I'm going, soon I won't even be able to tie my shoes.

[automatico]

"Like everything else, the more you learn, the more you realize you don’t know"

 

That is certainly true.

The more I learn, the less I know for sure, and the dumber I feel. 

 

One of the great mysteries (to me) in the replica watch world is why cartel vintage rlx case makers can not will not make accurate cases. 

Noob, ZZF, ARF etc. have very good modern replica cases and a complete running watch from them will cost less than an empty 'replica connoisseur' vintage case that sells for $600 to $1500.

 

 

 

[Sogeha]

6 hours ago, automatico said:

"Like everything else, the more you learn, the more you realize you don’t know"

 

That is certainly true.

The more I learn, the less I know for sure, and the dumber I feel. 

 

One of the great mysteries (to me) in the replica watch world is why cartel vintage rlx case makers can not will not make accurate cases. 

Noob, ZZF, ARF etc. have very good modern replica cases and a complete running watch from them will cost less than an empty 'replica connoisseur' vintage case that sells for $600 to $1500.

 

 

 

 

Well if there is so much stuff you still don’t know, I may as well give up and go watch Netflix 

[Nanuq]

[Sogeha]

1 hour ago, Nanuq said:

 

Minty! You are my spirit animal ❤️

[RickFlorida]

I like Helenarou dials for their price and their fit for ETA movements.    The triangle at 12 O-clock on Yuki's is way way too short.  I didn't notice this until someone showed me the Helenarou or other dials.  I can't believe how short the triangle is on a Yuki dial compared to gen.  But there is no perfect ETA fitting rolex dial you have to just go with what you decide.

The lume color is really really wrong on them but I love everything else about the Helenarou 5513 dial.  It may have other flaws that are beyond my knowledge but it works if you are just trying to fit to ETA.

19 hours ago, automatico said:

"Like everything else, the more you learn, the more you realize you don’t know"

 

That is certainly true.

The more I learn, the less I know for sure, and the dumber I feel. 

 

One of the great mysteries (to me) in the replica watch world is why cartel vintage rlx case makers can not will not make accurate cases. 

Noob, ZZF, ARF etc. have very good modern replica cases and a complete running watch from them will cost less than an empty 'replica connoisseur' vintage case that sells for $600 to $1500.

 

 

 

I wondered this too but I strongly believe that it's due to volume and interest.  The large wholesalers are filling a larger demand for replicas of newer rolexes so they get more updates and quality.  The market for accurate vintage replicas is a tiny portion of the market for newer rolex.    At least this is what I think is the reason we won't get perfect cases from them.  The scary thing is that one by one the vintage replica case makers are disappearing.  NTD Trading in California stopped selling over 4 years ago  (but her website is still up so I wonder why she is paying for it.  Phong does not answer any emails, at least to me.  And his son's website is completely gone.   So that leaves us only with Rubywatch and MQ in Vietnam for good cases.  That is why I'm desperately trying to reverse engineer a 5513 case for CNC file uploading in case we never have a source.

Edited May 7, 2020 by RickFlorida

[jackflash]

HR will do a custom lume for you in any colour you want. Just ask. For the price the dial is excellent.

[chriz74]

1 hour ago, jackflash said:

HR will do a custom lume for you in any colour you want. Just ask. For the price the dial is excellent.

not bad, do they provide hands in same color?

[jackflash]

not bad, do they provide hands in same color?

Yes, but the proportions of the hands they have on offer aren’t the best.