crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I think you have been real rude to translate in that way. As I said earlier, a Swiss ETA 2892 cost USD200-USD250. Andrew All I think we're looking for here is an admission you made a mistake in how you marketed this watch. You are defending to the nth degree your reasons for doing this and that. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy????? I can't see how you can possibly defend the decision to represent this watch the way you did no matter how complicated the rationalizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Is this thread the new home page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Why don't you make a rep and then advertise it without lying to increase your profit margin. If you had indeed told everyone you put a piece of [censored] movement in it to try and cut cost then we wouldn't have an issue now would we. But you obviously realised this would curtail your sales, so thought you would try and get away with misrepresenting the movement, and hoping that we are all ignorant enough or intimidated enough not to call you out on it. Well you almost got away with it but NO we aren't gonna stand for being taken for idiots and it's high time that you realise if you keep treating us this way, your existence will be shortlived. Edge If you think we have high margins, you are wrong... We dont! Here's the maths... normally Maker wants us to make 1000 cases. We can only take 500. So prices are higher for the cases. We make alterations along the way to a standard which we deemed good. We changed the strap 3 times before it was deemed OK. We spent 6 months on that and loads of money. If I said we didnt earn anything, I am lying to you. We earned some profit but not the SKY HIGH profit you said to be. I think you have taken this too personally and I wish to cut off any more replies to this thread. I have stepped in to speak to allow all to listen but many came in not to speak but to hurt in words. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 It would be great to hear what TTK and Narikaa have to say about this. I noticed they have been reading. What are your views of the business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The Maker has also sold the watches at a high cost price because of the details of work done on it. It is the Forum guys that gave Angus input on the replica watches and in the end, Maker took pains to change this and that (e.g Hublot and Chronomat Evo and SteelFish), so all the costs of changes and special detailing brough up the cost. I can swear to you thats the truth. alright now you have [censored] me the [censored] off Andrew and other dealers you need to stop - take a breath, sit back and think about having a future with this board. You, and Josh SPECIFICALLY said ANGUS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACTORY, they dind't know a hublot until you brought it to them. ANd that his stuff in the forum was all BS NOW its the REASON stuff is so expensive? You have dug a deeper hole here. - Your not going to be able to get away with a load of crap this time. - Look, if making watches is expensive? FINE - if eta movements are expensive FINE but - what your saying is, you have had to LIE to us because making these movements is hard and expensive. [censored] - i love the new Double AR coated crystals and if you tell me that it costs 50 bucks on the watch to do it, ok - Fine, but thats not what your doing. The problem here, is, now that you are being called out on teh [censored] - no one knows what to believe - So - I think you need to sit back - come up with an apology for lieing to us - swear that you will never do it again - and i think the dealers need to get back to being competitive. I know the rep industry is hard, and expensive, and i don't mind paying for that all day all night, What i have a problem with is Paying for someone to line their pockets based upon BS. So - I recommend you start thinking about a future in this community because you better believe that if this continues there will be no Trusty Watch Guy around here. Because if We Can't Trusty - then no one will Trusty I'm so mad because i like you guys. I want to be behind you, i want you to make a nice living so you keep selling reps - but i don't want you to feed me a load of [censored]! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 BOO [censored]ING HOO. This is all irrelevant detail. Are we supposed to feel sympathetic and somehow accept that the restricted availability of 2892 movements makes it acceptable to misrepresent something else as 2892 because that it what we really want. You think you are selling dreams or something ie. if you can fool us into believing it is a 2892 then that justifies the money. [censored] off Andrew - this really is showing you for what you are. If the movements aren't available then say so, substitute them with something else, disclose what the substitute is and drop the price. You were always going to get caught - it was only a matter of time before enough evidence was gathered to prove that you have been lying. No sympathy vote will change what you've been doing. I think you take it too far.... The word "[censored] OFF" is deemed to me as a personal insult. I will not go to your level with the kind of offensive language I did not even say anything about the restriction of movements resulting in us using the ETA Clone 2892. Why is there assumptions made all along? ANDREW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I have stepped in to speak to allow all to listen but many came in not to speak but to hurt in words. AndrewI can understand your reaction to posts that are very heated and profane. I wouldn't be exactly ready to own up to culpability under those circunstances either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 You should go into politics Andrew..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 You should go into politics Andrew..... andrew is good at getting [censored]s from fat chicks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I can understand your reaction to posts that are very heated and profane. I wouldn't be exactly ready to own up to culpability under those circunstances either. Doesn't change the situation. Two wrongs don't make a right. 'Please your honour, my defence for my crime is that a victim told me to [censored] off'. Yeah, right..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 You should go into politics Andrew..... Talk about profane!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The entire watch replica industry is not what you think to be, guys. I used to think like you guys but once I step into this Dark World of reps, there are more to be learned and that humbles me whenever I meet up with the Makers. Their knowledge can put all of us to shame. =) Andrew The real shame seems to be the cheap quality of the movement. I'm ready to believe that Andrew acted in good faith - which is what he seems to be trying to say here - but if dealers are passing along cheap movements as premium ones - even in good faith - I'd say we've all got a problem. So where is it? Is it the fault of the 'Makers' passing off junk to the dealers and touting it as premium? Does Andrew really know what's going into these watches? Are they (the 'Makers') doing a bait & switch somewhere between description of what's inside and delivery? Do we owe Andrew the benefit of the doubt - if not an apology? Or should Andrew 'fess-up and admit that he was totally asleep on his...watch - until it became too late to avoid this collision with reality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratedzeus Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Andrew is good at not explaining the real questions but telling us everything else that wasn't asked but makes his actions look better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Doesn't change the situation. Two wrongs don't make a right. 'Please your honour, my defence for my crime is that a victim told me to [censored] off'. Yeah, right..... Doesn't change the situation but it sure changes the tenor of the interrogation. Oh yeah, you're playing bad cop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RiverwindMDS Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I think you have been real rude to translate in that way. As I said earlier, a Swiss ETA 2892 cost USD200-USD250. Andrew Sorry for the question, but how much was the Seagull 2892? that is exactly the same as the eta in dimensions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 You are missing the point. I am not saying you make lots of money, I am not decrying the effort you put in to bring this watch to the members. I commend you for your efforts what we are [censored] off about is the fact that you lied about the description of the watch. You cannot deny the fact you lied, we have ironclad evidence to the contrary. You said "ETA 2892" and "Asian ETA 2892" in the description, which is COMPLETELY false, and then you have gone off at a tangent in your replies. i dont care how much money you make I understand the effort you put in but you CANNOT expect to get away with completely misrepresenting a movement in order to increase sales. So as has been said before you are either lying KNOWINGLY, or are COMPLETELY ignorant about movements. AND/OR are dropshipping the final watches. Lest us not forget the fact that you are also controlling the watches that the dealers on here have acces to, as I have spoken to more than one dealer who is having issues sourcing specific watche sbecause you and your 3 friends have tried to buy up all of the stock to make sure noone else has access to them so you can drive up prices and control the release of these watches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 The real shame seems to be the cheap quality of the movement. I'm ready to believe that Andrew acted in good faith - which is what he seems to be trying to say here - but if dealers are passing along cheap movements as premium ones - even in good faith - I'd say we've all got a problem. So where is it? Is it the fault of the 'Makers' passing off junk to the dealers and touting it as premium? Does Andrew really know what's going into these watches? Are they (the 'Makers') doing a bait & switch somewhere between description of what's inside and delivery? Do we owe Andrew the benefit of the doubt - if not an apology? Or should Andrew 'fess-up and admit that he was totally asleep on his...watch - until it became too late to avoid this collision with reality? Ryan here is the problem - go take a look at their sites. Notice that most watches have a movement photo. Notice that the one in question does not. - No question in my mind that they did this knowingly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Talk about profane!!!! HEY NOW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted March 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Ryan here is the problem - go take a look at their sites. Notice that most watches have a movement photo. Notice that the one in question does not. - No question in my mind that they did this knowingly This is the key point there is all sorts of evidence which corroberates the fact that they KNOWINGLY mislead and lied to the members regarding this watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 You think making reps in small quantities is cheap... I will be bold enough to ask you: Why dont you make a replica of the Bell and Ross for me? Then you tell me the investment you need to put in? Thanks! I think I have said enough. Andrew Hello, The issue isn't the investment put in, but since you mentioned it... So what you're saying is you needed a higher ROI on these watches, which is why you called it an eta??????? Sorry, but I'm not a dealer, you are... And if the "investment" you put in is so high, then why bother to be in this business in the first place? It's your choice, just like how it's ours, whether or not to state FACTS in a COMMUNITY like RWG. Also, all I do know is that the fact remains that there is indeed a cartel going on, don't deny it dude. Cheers, "trusty"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 You are missing the point. I am not saying you make lots of money, I am not decrying the effort you put in to bring this watch to the members. I commend you for your efforts what we are [censored] off about is the fact that you lied about the description of the watch. You cannot deny the fact you lied, we have ironclad evidence to the contrary. You said "ETA 2892" and "Asian ETA 2892" in the description, which is COMPLETELY false, and then you have gone off at a tangent in your replies. i dont care how much money you make I understand the effort you put in but you CANNOT expect to get away with completely misrepresenting a movement in order to increase sales. So as has been said before you are either lying KNOWINGLY, or are COMPLETELY ignorant about movements. AND/OR are dropshipping the final watches. Lest us not forget the fact that you are also controlling the watches that the dealers on here have acces to, as I have spoken to more than one dealer who is having issues sourcing specific watche sbecause you and your 3 friends have tried to buy up all of the stock to make sure noone else has access to them so you can drive up prices and control the release of these watches. Buy all of the watches? You must be kidding. The dealer must be lying to you... The Maker makes more than 1000 pieces of those watches. How can anyone eat up all of the stocks? Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Why don't you make a rep and then advertise it without lying to increase your profit margin. If you had indeed told everyone you put a piece of [censored] movement in it to try and cut cost then we wouldn't have an issue now would we. But you obviously realised this would curtail your sales, so thought you would try and get away with misrepresenting the movement, and hoping that we are all ignorant enough or intimidated enough not to call you out on it. Well you almost got away with it but NO we aren't gonna stand for being taken for idiots and it's high time that you realise if you keep treating us this way, your existence will be shortlived. Oops... you've already answered that one for me, dude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 I've gained some information and wisdom from this thread. Andrew's description of the bottomless pit of thousands of variations of movements, bracelets, straps, cases,...the pressures and edicts from a mythical Maker (notice the capital M. It's a little scary) and his inference that the seedier side of this business is scary and filled with more pressures that just deadlines and deals, has made me more wary than ever about what I'm risking buying one of these things. There's no telling what you're going to get. Dealer reputation and trust is more important than ever. This thread is a necessary flushing out of the facts and risks involved on both sides of the business. We need honest, trustworthy dealers more than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 58 members....It's gettin' crowded in here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 This thread seems to have turned from an issue with price fixing, to an issue with the BR-01, are we not flogging a dead horse with that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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