Sellita movements : many questions, let's investigate...

[Pix]

Hi all,

we have all been reading about these Swiss movements, especially since we find them in some of our reps.

Those we find look definitely like ETA movements.

And the background is often "I ordered this or that rep with an ETA and got a Sellita instead".

There are many unclear points for me.

So, first the search results : http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?act=Se...ighlite=sellita

What I learn from this, is that

- Sellita is a Swiss company

- their movements are good

- they are considered as ETA clones in the discussions, which has not been really evidenced yet.

Here's their website (sorry in French, but the movement catalogue can be understood easily) :

It seems they are (used to be) an ETA large customer, therefore not supplying or assembling home made movements to the ETA group.

As for all, there is not a simple answer, as there are NOT one but several Sellita movements. But here are my questions / current doubts :

- what is the reason why we find Sellita movements instead of ETA in the reps right now ?

- are these (some of these) swapable against ETA ?

- are there common parts ?

- are they clones or genuine ETA (manufactured by ETA) ?

- are they cheaper ? That's a key issue, as this might be the reason why we meet them more and more

- are they as easy to source and/or repair as ETA ?

These are the main things I'm wondering about, but I might have forgotten some.

I would love this thread to be some kind of reference about this brand, as one thing is sure : Sellita movements in reps exist and we should find why.

Except some afficionado, I think noone ever heard of them before. We all know the ETA, Asian 21J and Sea-Gull things. But what about this "outsider" ?

Thx for any contribution, technical (needed) or from the marketing point of view.

[cornerstone]

Okay - it's easier if you ignore their website, it's a bit of a red herring in this discussion.

Sellita traditionally finish ETA movements for manufacturers. You know how many brands just have ETA's and then 'finish' them - well, some of them don't even do that bit, Sellita does it for them.

The only reason we can still get ETA movements is because Sellita (and others) started an anti-trust action against ETA and won - which is why they are being phased out.

So the 2824 you linked to in the other thread is a finished ETA movement. It is an ETA movement.

As Pugwash said, when people say they got a 'Sellita' it means they got the new SW200. This is Sellita's answer to the ETA movements being phased out and it is already used in many genuine Swiss watches. In fact it is in essence a 'Swiss' copy of the ETA movement since the many of the patents on that movement have expired.

The SW200's will exist in reps because they're being used in gens. The parts are not interchangeable, but I believe that the movements are swappable.

And get this....in the next few years Sellita are planning a 7750 competitor.

[FxrAndy]

I got a reply from the factory they do not sell to private persons and would not give me any info on who will!!!!!!!!!!

[Pix]

Here's a pic I found on some boards, taken during the Basel2007 fair.

Does that mean that this movement is a really brand new one?

26 jewels, against 25...?

Also, can we understand from such catalogues that it's fully interchangeable with the ETA 2824-2 ?

At least I figure out better what's happening in our reps.

The price is definitely a key issue. The availability too ?

A "Swiss" competitor for the 7750 would be some good thing, again, depending on the price and on what it brings against the Asian clone.

"Our" Asian 7750 is already some excellent competitor, it's just missing a bit of QC/servicing and is surely more than enough in our reps if sold/installed in the right conditions (which I understood not to be the case).

I now understand the ETA we see on their website have in fact no advantage on the "genuine" ETA, as they are genuine. No interest for our reps, all the more as it's likely to be more expensive, because finished/reworked.

[FxrAndy]

Has any one asked at cousins UK if they can get this, If not i will ask, but lets not all ask at the same time!

[Pix]

Hi Andy,

I don't even know who they are

[HauteHippie]

The SW200 is a direct replacement for the 2824. Both are 11.5''' lignes, 25.6mm diameter, 4.6mm height. Selita is basically making licensed copies of ETA movements. Companies like Oris are now using Selita movements in some of their lines (Oris cal. 733 == SW200), and I believe Selita claims to have several hundred clients. Selita also has a SW300 (ETA 2892 clone) and either has or is going to have an SW220 (ETA 2836 clone) and SW240 (ETA 2834 clone). These movements can fit into the same cases, receive the same dials, and accept the same additional modules as their ETA counterparts.

[Pugwash]

Selita also has a SW300 (ETA 2892 clone) [...] and accept the same additional modules as their ETA counterparts.

I await the 2894 clone with eager anticipation!

[FxrAndy]

Mailed Cousins to ask if they can or will get them. Will let you all know what they say

[fendushi]

Oris uses Sellita SW200 as a base for their divers watches...

http://www.oris.ch/collections/collections...p;id_product=65

:wub:

[FxrAndy]

I got a reply from cousins ref these:-

Dear Sir

I regret the Selita factory are not accepting any new orders at present as their production line is full untill 2008.

It is possible we can obtain these from 2009 onwards.

Best regards, Cousins

Still hope in 2009 then

[Pix]

That's good for them

That also means that the "swiss" movements in our reps might be more difficult to get on the mid-term... or that, as it's already the case sometimes, that we'll get used or franken ones.

[t]

Selitta get his ebauches (basis movements) from ETA... Selitta was ETA biggest customers and bought nearly 50% of ETA stock.

Now ETA stop selling of ebauches and will sell only finished movements.

Selitta is planing to build a manufacture movement with M

[Pix]

Has anyone got a SW200 movement with an ETA 2824-2 engraving ?

[FxrAndy]

Sellita and Muhle from Glasshutte are working on building a factory in Glasshutte, i assume these movements will be the Sw200 and others talked about here in a hope to fill the void left by ETA in 2010. This new Company/factory whatever is working under the name of Gurofa right now.

For those of now aware Muhle has applied for inslovency procedings to start due to a court case with Nomos and the use of the glassHutte wording on there watches as for a manufacturer to use that wording 50% of the value of the movement must be made in Glasshutte, due to Muhle buying in ETA works from switzerland and modding them the courts deemed that they did not meet that requirment. You can read the full story in "Armband Uhren" 04/07 pages 26 and 27. The intersting up shot of this will be when the new factory opens and starts to supplie others with 100% Glasshutte movements and with Wempe Chrono lab just up the road they should be able to provide an alternative to Swiss CSOC chonometers to the masses we those who can afford a mid range watch any way.

These are just my thought and musing from what i can gather from the press not any thing else, it would be nice to see a swing however small from the swiss to a 100% german watch (no matter who originaly designed the works)

[Pix]

I'm just wondering about the reasons why ETA decided to stop the deliveries of their movements to non SWATCH-Group companies.

What is the gain ? Increase in margin ? Well, did they expect noone whould fill in the gap ?

It's done with Sellita, and surely there are plenty of other alternatives (Pugwash mentionned about Seiko's 28800 bph movement, which I believe too).

Wouldn't they get the opposite result ? I mean, just lose their leadership.

[t]

I'm just wondering about the reasons why ETA decided to stop the deliveries of their movements to non SWATCH-Group companies.

What is the gain ? Increase in margin ? Well, did they expect noone whould fill in the gap ?

It's done with Sellita, and surely there are plenty of other alternatives (Pugwash mentionned about Seiko's 28800 bph movement, which I believe too).

Wouldn't they get the opposite result ? I mean, just lose their leadership.

ETA don

[Pix]

I see. Somehow different. But the result is similar : price increase.

[Pugwash]

I'm just wondering about the reasons why ETA decided to stop the deliveries of their movements to non SWATCH-Group companies.

What is the gain ? Increase in margin ? Well, did they expect noone whould fill in the gap ?

It's the fact they can compete. Omega can now point to Oris et al as having an 'inferior' movement. They could never do this while they were putting the same movements in their watches as their competition.

[Pix]

Hi,

back to this topic.

Anyone knows if this movement only winds in one direction, or is it bi-directionnal like its ETA counter-part ?

As I actually have a strong doubt on the Chinese rep of the Nautilus MBK : it winds in only one direction. I'll open it tonight, but am almost prety sure it's not an ETA inside.

[mrandazzo]

Hi everybody!

This is my first post, but I've been reading here for a lot of time.

I was wondering: "the movement on sellita's site are swiss made? or china made?"

They have engraving & ETA logo. The one on sellita's site too.

So, where are they made? Here's the problem! Who can say something that would be 100% reliable?

We are not in touch with Swatch Group and if they build some of theyr movement in China, they will keep this secret, indeed.

We can only have opinions.

All ETA movements in reps are chinese made? I think so. Probably they are Sellita. Made in China. Assembled in China.

Of course, I cannot be sure of this.

Where the reps manufacturer buy Eta movement? in Swiss? From Sellita?

It's quite strange. The modded gmt 2836? are they swiss? they have eta engraving logo...

I think they're all china made. Anyone has information about this question?

Swiss or chinese? I feel a little confused

[cornerstone]

You missed the explanation for this in the second post in this thread.

Up until recently Sellita existed to 'finish' ETA blank movements - the movements on their website ARE ETA movements.

ETA wanted to stop supplying them and do this finishing work themselves. Sellita won a court case to make ETA phase out supply.

None of these Sellita-ETA's are in our reps.

When people talk about receiving a Sellita in their rep, they are talking about the new Sellita SW200 which is their replacement for the ETA. It is already sold in gen watches including Oris and (I believe) Breitling.

It is a 'Swiss' copy of the ETA movement since many of the patents have expired. The movement is swappable with its ETA equivalent, but the parts are not interchangeable.

[mrandazzo]

I see. So the Eta you find in reps/poor man watchs are made in Switzerland?

Because Eta offers standard movement and they have different values (of the movement on sellita's website).

Eta standard

Average rate 12+-12 s/d

Max Variation all posit. 30 s

Isochronism +- 20 s/d

Sellita (same eta, not the Sw series)

Average rate 0+25 s/d

Max Variation all posit. 40 s

Isochronism 50 s/d

So, if they are standard eta, why they are different? Different performance, different price.

I think that movement on Sellita's website are eta. Yes, but they're are cheaper and made in china.

But there are no evidence. That's the point.

Where this movement are produced? China? Switzerland? Who knows?

[cornerstone]

I don't see any difference at all. The ETA 2824-2 on the Sellita site has the same specs as the ETA 2824-2, because it is one. The schematic is even the official ETA one. There's no real mystery - traditionally they 'finish' the movements to the manufacturer's specifications (some of the brands do very little in the way of watch making if they can outsource it).

I'm not clear what the Sellita / ETA discussion has to do with Switzerland / China.

[mrandazzo]

I'm not clear what the Sellita / ETA discussion has to do with Switzerland / China.

Because I thought that Sellita's 2824 were sold apart and they were cheaper than the eta 2824 standard. (different quality of the same article, different price)

You see what I'm trying to explain in my worse-english?

So I was thinking that probably the eta you'll find in reps are cheap and they were probably china made. Am I wrong?

Thats were my questions.

BTW, I agree with you. Sellita are finished Eta.