By-Tor Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Ok, I wasn't going to buy a new Sub... or write a review of a new Sub. God knows there are enough of them. But this was for sale in the member sales section for a very nice price. The old "TW Best" classic. I was "Subless" again, so I couldn't resist (being the geek that I am). Special thanks to member ***erwinner*** for the flawless transaction. I'm not going to bore members with the endless info about rehauts and such. If you want to know the differences between the "Taiwan model" and the standard Chinese Subs, visit bklm1234's excellent Submariner 16610 buying guide HERE. It contains pretty much everything you need to know. I also recommend my friend Stephane's great reviews of different Rolex models. Originally, I was never a fan of the "TW models", because they have certain inaccuracies. But then I got a "TW Best" GMT Master for a review. Although not very accurate rep, it was really nice watch, and I became a "believer". You can see the review HERE. The main rival of the MBW/TW models is the Chinese "Noobmariner" which I have reviewed HERE. It's available with ETA and Asian 21J movements. Different dealers just have different names for it (Beginmariner, "perfect Sub"), etc. I'm not going to lie to you: I don't have much enthusiasm to write about this old rep model. This watch has been debated to death, and numerous members (like Chietang, Tribal and Ubiquitous) have all used this as a "base" watch for their great modifications. But since I always make some kind of writeup/pictorial of my purchases, I decided to "squeeze" out something about this (undoubtedly a nice and classic rep) as well. My watch is a "TW best" model in good and bad. The dial isn't perfect. M and m don't align, the print is not as good as on the Noobmariner, SELs and clasp coronet are very sloppy, and the hour markers are "pimplish". However these aren't apparent, except in the zoomed pictures. The bracelet has solid middle links, and the case has lug holes (which are positioned a bit too close to the edge). The rehaut is metallic, and deep as a fish tank. Personally, I think it was good and deep enough on the Asian Nooby, but many people swear by this one... so who am I to say they're wrong? The cyclops and datewheel are also placed correctly. While the winding crown isn't visually perfect, it's better than most. It also operates smoothly and nicely. But you all knew this already, didn't you? I really like this TW model. The main reasons are the weight, case, crystal and the general "feel", which is (imho) superior to the Chinese. But I still think "Nooby", the Chinese super-Rolex beats unmodded TW and MBW models in visual accuracy. Of course it depends what you consider important. The TW model is more expensive and probably quite difficult to source these days. It's also the only option if you want to build a "perfect" 16610 rep. You buy what you like the best, debating about the "best Sub" is a dead horse. I just end this "mini review" with two pics I took of the watch today. Hope you enjoyed this quick writeup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Nice write-up BT. I managed to pick up the same watch about 6 months ago, thinking I'd build a 16800. But so far I haven't been able to get past those poorly positioned lug holes. I'm still trying to figure out how to drill some off-center holes to get them more cemtered in the middle of the lugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Lancelot Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Nice. The last two pictures are great, but they always are. thank you for doing this review. I too don't like the holes drilled too far out, but the deeper rehaut is great. Different strokes for different folks. Things that bother some, do not bother others. The frankens like Ubi's & Tribals are the way to go, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I too don't like the holes drilled too far out, but the deeper rehaut is great. Different strokes for different folks. Things that bother some, do not bother others. Indeed. Actually nothing bothers me on this watch, it's really nice. I'm not planning to do any mods. Somehow this has "bigger" and more substantial wrist presence than the Chinese versions. Maybe it's the case depth? I wish they'd make the improved TW model of the GMT Master... I'd buy that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Nice write-up BT. I managed to pick up the same watch about 6 months ago, thinking I'd build a 16800. But so far I haven't been able to get past those poorly positioned lug holes. I'm still trying to figure out how to drill some off-center holes to get them more cemtered in the middle of the lugs. Good luck man. I have no idea how you're going to do it though. Wasn't there newer version of the "TW Best"... without lugholes? Can't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwinner Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 These pic's are much better than mine on the initial 'for sale' section. Can't blame it on the watch this time, so I guess I'll have to spend some more time on practicing what Pugwash preaches ;-) Anyway; enjoy the Sub and make sure it get's the wrist-time it deserves. This is just the best every day watch you could have in your stock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elprimerozen Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I love this version of the TW!!! Great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Hey Bytor,is this the one for 75 Bucks? You are a luckyman, i'm still searching for one of the older Lughole Modells... Put some Magic (Noob Dial,Gen Tube and Crown,Gen Insert and the Noob Bracelet) and you have a fantastic FRANKENSUB... By the way nice pics... Wear it well... Edited July 19, 2007 by Tribal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bklm1234 Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 when erwinner put it for sale, I said let me see when somebody realizes it's a tw best, 'cause erwinner didn't mention TW Best at all. The price was ridiculously low. It literally sat there for a day or more. I'm happy for By-Tor. If I knew you were looking for "another" sub :-), I would have told you anyway. Good catch, extremely good catch. -bk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 when erwinner put it for sale, I said let me see when somebody realizes it's a tw best, 'cause erwinner didn't mention TW Best at all. The price was ridiculously low. It literally sat there for a day or more. I'm happy for By-Tor. If I knew you were looking for "another" sub :-), I would have told you anyway. Good catch, extremely good catch. -bk I must agree By the way thanks for the Dials, BK.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Yeah, erwin sold it for way too cheap. I didn't know it was there for days, I thought I jumped on this right away. Well, as soon as I saw it. I feel sorry for the poor chap though, so I promised him a lifetime rep consulting (whenever he needs any guidance). @Tribal: I'd love to do those mods but my fingers are like sausages. I leave modding to experts. Nooby dial would really put this "over the edge", but I'm quite satisfied with this. I'm also surprised how good the crown guards are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Yeah, erwin sold it for way too cheap. I didn't know it was there for days, I thought I jumped on this right away. Well, as soon as I saw it. I feel sorry for the poor chap though, so I promised him a lifetime rep consulting (whenever he needs any guidance). @Tribal: I'd love to do those mods but my fingers are like sausages. I leave modding to experts. Nooby dial would really put this "over the edge", but I'm quite satisfied with this. I'm also surprised how good the crown guards are. Yepp, you lucky guy Its a damm nice peace,sorry for the bad alligned lugholes.. But who cares.. The Rehaut is the best conical like the gen one... Do you realized that the datewheel of this one is the same as on the older MBW's ? So i think the older Subs came from the same Factory... Tell us about the engravings between the lugs... Thats interesting for me.. Edited July 19, 2007 by Tribal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I haven't taken off the bracelet yet. Maybe I eventually have energy to check there. I'm 99% sure that this is exactly the same watch as the old MBW. I checked a few threads in the old RWG and at least Tommy had bought this exact same watch from Maria. I also think there's a newer version with different (but still wrong) M and m alignment. Then Davey had a version where 6' hour marker was positioned too close to the seconds markers. I guess there are 4-5 different variations of this model. I also forgot to mention that this version doesn't have the crown rubber gasket or the etched Rolex crown. It has the (almost) correct datefont though. Not serif, not too thick. I try to shoot some new shots tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 I haven't taken off the bracelet yet. Maybe I eventually have energy to check there. I'm 99% sure that this is exactly the same watch as the old MBW. I checked a few threads in the old RWG and at least Tommy had bought this exact same watch from Maria. I also think there's a newer version with different (but still wrong) M and m alignment. Then Davey had a version where 6' hour marker was positioned too close to the seconds markers. I guess there are 4-5 different variations of this model. I also forgot to mention that this version doesn't have the crown rubber gasket or the etched Rolex crown. It has the (almost) correct datefont though. Not serif, not too thick. I try to shoot some new shots tomorrow. Thats what i thought.... keep us updated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 keep us updated... Yes please! Congratulations on this one BT. Incredible price. If any other member want to sell theirs for that kind of price, pls PM me. I'll take a dozen Splendid photos aswell of course. I love the rehaut and I can imagine the feel on the wrist with the solid mid links. But, damn, the lugholes makes it completely wrong in my opinion. Tribal, do you think these lug holes can be drilled to perfection or is it a dead end ? Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Yes please! Congratulations on this one BT. Incredible price. If any other member want to sell theirs for that kind of price, pls PM me. I'll take a dozen Splendid photos aswell of course. I love the rehaut and I can imagine the feel on the wrist with the solid mid links. But, damn, the lugholes makes it completely wrong in my opinion. Tribal, do you think these lug holes can be drilled to perfection or is it a dead end ? Cheers Stephane Hello, There was a model with lugholes and SEL's some A and F series... I love the Lughole modell more than the newer ones... For the bad alligned Lugholes,i think there is no good solution to solve the problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Hello, There was a model with lugholes and SEL's some A and F series... I love the Lughole modell more than the newer ones... For the bad alligned Lugholes,i think there is no good solution to solve the problem.... Thanks for that info Tribal. Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Great review, as always BT! This is an old classic that dates back 10+ years if I'm not mistaken (does that seem about right Tribal)? An excellent platform for modding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Wasn't there newer version of the "TW Best"... without lugholes? Can't remember. River still had this model when I checked w/ him a couple of months ago. I bought the Noob w/ the CN eta copy instead- it was quite a bit cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 River still had this model when I checked w/ him a couple of months ago. I bought the Noob w/ the CN eta copy instead- it was quite a bit cheaper. How do i contact river? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alextor Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Indeed. Actually nothing bothers me on this watch, it's really nice. I'm not planning to do any mods. Somehow this has "bigger" and more substantial wrist presence than the Chinese versions. Maybe it's the case depth? I wish they'd make the improved TW model of the GMT Master... I'd buy that too. Always nice to read your reviews, my friend!!! Great pics and write up Cheerio Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedmaster Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Which dealer(s) sell the TW model? Great looking watch. PS: those pics are wonderfull. You should work for a watch magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 How do i contact river? thanks The easiest way to contact River is to go to RWI and click on his link there and get his email and away you go http://www.replica-watch.info/forum/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Great review, as always BT! This is an old classic that dates back 10+ years if I'm not mistaken (does that seem about right Tribal)? An excellent platform for modding... Yeep, you are right Ubi Man i had 3 or 5 of this beautys in the past.. I killed them all and throw them away Maybe i must ask River for one of these... Edited July 20, 2007 by Tribal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Thank you all for your nice comments, much appreciated. And nice to see you back Alex... man, where have you been? @Ubi: Is this really 10 years old model? Fascinating. I thought max. 3-4 years... and even THAT is a lot in the rep world. Really weird thing about this watch is the size. It's supposedly the same 40mm but the bezel and crystal look wider (like on the real 16610). I don't know if that's the case but this feels somehow "bigger". Or maybe it's just the case depth? Are the replacement TW inserts the same size with the CN models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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