flavor flav Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 i have been a member here for a long time and started doing mod work as a hobby about a year ago. It's been a challenge but continued to be very fun to do and learn. i have dealt with most all members on the forum at one point or nother and i always am friendly, do my best to help out, post pictorials, and just enjoy our hobby. Recently in the last 6 months i have had my pm box full constantly with mod work requests and i turn down probably 80-90% of them as i do not have much spare time to be away from my family. i never claim my work to be the best on the planet or claim that i can do anything i am asked to do. if i get a request, i check my schedule and do my best to do the work that is requested and in a timely manner. most cases 4-5 days. i will always communicate and am never hard to contact. if there is a request i cannot do or cannot fit my schedule, i usually refer them to The Zigmeister, vaccum, or thumb. Mod work is done by hand and can have varied results. i have done alot of very good work and have many many repeat customers that are always happy and want to send me more. i have had a few recently not happy with the work done and i always do my best to work things out as quickly as possible. *i had a pam 253 here to try to retap the CG screws and fit the crowngaurd back on.and to relume. the first seconds hand i pulled the tube broke off seperated from the hand. the case was too stripped to tap and fit a small enough screw into. so.. i bought him an new 253, lumed it, and sent him a brand new watch. no charge. *i had a mini fiddy here for vintage work. very tough to guage whether it is too vintaged or just right for the owner's taste. the owner of this particular piece said it was a bit too much for his taste but he wanted to see if he ended up liking it. right away i told him i would be glad to buy a new mini fiddy, mod closer to his spec, and trade him for this one. he decided to keep it. * i had a fiddy here for relume, cannon flush, and cg lever refinishing i think. the minute hand came off in it's transit overseas, scratched the dial, and the hour hand as well. i accept it is 100% my fault, he had it fixed in his country, and i sent him a brand new pam 112H as apology. * i had a handful of sandwich dial pams come back as the lume expanded a bit through the sandwich plate, or light scratches on dials i did not see. i relumed again, replaced dials/ hands/ ect. to make them right. recently i got a mod request for a pam 029, and 111H. i had quoted prices before hand and told him i will let him know when my schedule is clear to ship. i got the watches off schedule shipped express to me with no note in the package of what work to do or payment check. i took some digging and figured out who they were from and confirmed the work being done. (111H cannon flush, relume) (029 relume, gen crown install, datewheel swap, cg lever tighten mod) i quoted my price again and then started getting very angry mail about my pricing. at this point, the 111H was done, and he decides to not have me do the work and send the watches back. i i tell him i am already started and i agree to cut over $100 of his bill and i told him i would not charge him for the 111H since he decided to not have me do it because he did not agree with my pricing. i told him it was finished and to pay for it if he wants too or dont pay for it since i had done the work before he changed his mind (fair?) he sent the 200 for the 111H mods and 300 for the 027 mods shipped back express. before shipping i see an uneven texture on the 111H dial and i informed him i have more dials on order and will replace it for him unless he wanted a mod dial i had here installed with filled indices to replicate a sausage painted dial. he agreed to take the painted dial and i told him if he change his mind i will have a sandwich dial here ready to swap for the painted dial and i would pay his shipping. i spent almost 8 hours doing the mod work and had to take apart and reasseemble many times to get it to fit right. valuable time away from my family while i was on vacation. the member gets his watch back and sends me an immediate message that he is very unhappy with the work and the sausage lume does not look like gen. i try and explain that the sausage dial relume done by hand, even by the best modders here, is never 100% perfect. i was actually happy with the result on this dial. i agreed to try to do what i can to make it right and i see posts of another respected modder about a horrible mod job in his shop and overpriced ($300 gen crown install, datewheel, relume, cg lever mod) he claimes 355 which was the original qoute untill he renegotiated and talked me into accepting his price. then i see his post making threats and "promises" to ruin my reputation. after seeing this i immediatly go to my paypal and refund his money. his "$355" with a note that i thought would be a kind genuine gesture. "i am sorry you were not happy with the work on your 029. i am refunding your money" (fair?) apparently not! i get this pm today. i am being blackmailed. "Chris, you have the cajones to say unhappy??? there is no high cannon pin fix for this movement... found that out today.. and the ETA H3 is readily available but would not be even used for this movement.. yet i was told you did this and charged... all you did for the crown was put an extender on it.... leaving the stem without an o-ring allowing dust and moisture into the movement the crown then is too far away from the case... the CG was cut down so much it is useless to the watch because the crown has to be returned to it's proper place ... there are pics of dust and dirt in the case the lume (pics available) was put on so hastily .. lumpy and uneven the hands have to be stripped down and repainted before it is lumed The worst of it is the lies you claimed on the work.... don't even try to argue this because i have the proof.... i do not bluff so don't even think about digging a deeper hole. Even if everything is redone .. i am left with a watch in which the CG is useless ... this was a genuine crown you were to put on .... This is unacceptable ... how many others have you done this to ???? you should not be allowed on the RWG or RWI or Rep Geeks if it were up to me . This is what you will do and you have 48 hours to get it done !!!!! you will refund the rest of the money that I paid you for before i find out what wasn't done on the 111H that I paid 145 usd for And you have 48 hours to get a new polished CG for this Model in the mail to me with proof of maiing.. this is not an option Chris ... if you think I am bluffing... then don't respond or make another transparent excuse or lie As I stated earlier this is not a threat ... this is a promise ... I am sure their are a lot of members who want me to expose what you did Not price gouging but blatantly lied about the work and ripped a member off 48 hour's buddy !!!!!!!!!!!! RXXXXXX " well... i am not really sure what i "lied about" if he is referring to the cannon upgrade that was for his 111H not the 029 so? if the workmanship is not good it's my fault and i'd be happy to work that out and i refunded his money as he has already sent it away to another modder. he wants me to refund the 111H as well? and send a crown gaurd to him in 48 hours.....(the lever was not shortened, it had the pin pressed out, filled the lever with resin for a tight feel, and pressed back together. that is the CG mod) well....if i have ever scammed anyone? that would mean i ran off with your money, didn't respond to you, dissapeared for 3 months, didn't offer to redo the job or accomidate you in any way right? so where is the scamming? how many of my watches have i sold and traded in the sale section here? well... archive, tons.. i like to collect them and turn them over when new stuff comes out. see any negetive reviews there on my honesty or trust? quite the opposite. i have been here a long time and have many friends and happy people here. i have given my best effort by putting up hundreds of pictures on the forum for others to enjoy. This is right now at the point i am being threatened, it is clear to me that i will not be doing anything but my own mod work for my own personal watches from this point forward. i never meant to make anyone upset and have always been fair. now i do not see any further reason to offer my services to others. i will enjoy doing my own watches, and occasionally sell some when i grow tired of them and buy some for fun when i see one i like, but with comments like these after i am willing to redo the work and have fully issued a refund, really hurts my heart. there are modders who can do better work than i can and if they feel that my work is horrible because thiers is better i wish they can keep that to themself. the same person i have sent referrals to numerous times, praised, respected, reccomended is smashing me instead of just telling me what is wrong and letting me have a chance to make up for it. i am one to forget and forgive and i still have respect for this modder and think his work is amazing. just don't understand the need to hurt. i have have refunded 100% of this member's money even though the 111H is done very well and it's not the issue.i hope he can enjoy a free mod. if anyone thinks i am not fair please speak out. i tried my best. not everyone can be pleased. if you think my work is bad/ tell me. i will always be fair. i love this forum and all the members. i do not want anyone to have this experience. i am hanging up my tools. FF/913 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cableguy Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 thats a shame that people do things like that..... you do good work, it sucks to lose your modding for the whole community. good luck with whatever happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavor flav Posted August 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 thats a shame that people do things like that..... you do good work, it sucks to lose your modding for the whole community. good luck with whatever happens thanks for your kind words... i will focus on teaching others to do thier own mods and will continue to post pics of my own personal modded watches. my rate of happy customers vs dissapointed customers is about 30/1. good odds but maybe not good enough. too much stress when no matter what i do i cannot make everyone happy. i try my best but there i always a bad day every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ximenes Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 When I read stories like this I tend to think the complainers are the real criminals, with the mindset to gain by relegating themselves to "unhappy customer" status.... "Hmm, if I complain and threaten I wonder if I can get this for free?" Unfortunately many of us in sales and service see this behavior all too often. X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 A very sad story to read Flav, it is our loss as a comunity now you no longer offer a service. It is a shame that people have to be so in tolerant and un willing to work out problems if there even was a problem in reality. I am sorry for our loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 sad story.... Sorry to hear that You have my full Respect for your work, that is fantastic.... I can't understand that some people are so stupid... It's a shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 i woud ask him to meet me face to face then see if he woud be so tuff..nervs on some people are unbelivebel.. i have been on rwg long time and this stuff suprises me not,its crasssy people out their and when doing stuff like modding your are bound to bump into one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 That's a sad story.... and it would be even sadder if you retired from modding. Whoever sends you his watch needs to understand that you are not a professional, with 10 years of training on your back nor are the watches you're working on genuine articles with proper factory QC's. To have the expectation that this rep hobby is like buying a rolex at an AD and taking it for service to an AD is childish. You can only try to give it your best and if in any particular case it turns out bad, be ready to make up for it. Nothing more, nothing less. The other modder you referred to very recently explained his relationship to one of his main customers (and friends) and basically said that one of the cornerstones of their "working" relationship was the common understanding that if you comission mods, you have to accept that there's are potential risks involved. I totally agree. You where prepared to make it right, redo the mod, even refund the money. If your customer expects anything more, he's clearly on the wrong path... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hey Flav when get my new superlumed dials? My customers are crazy for your dials... all my modded watches with your dials are sold... the watches without your dial are still here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkdk Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Im really sorry to read this. the least we can do in things comunity is comunicate in a proper tone. threats like that are totally unacceptable. After all, there is no reason to get upset, since the watches are REPS. If you had "messed" up his gen, i could relate to his anger, but still his words are still far too harsch. Sorry to hear you are hanging your tools. Its a big loss for our comunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kollektor Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I've only had good experiences with Flav. Very sad turn of events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kollektor Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Im really sorry to read this. the least we can do in things comunity is comunicate in a proper tone. threats like that are totally unacceptable. After all, there is no reason to get upset, since the watches are REPS. If you had "messed" up his gen, i could relate to his anger, but still his words are still far too harsch. Sorry to hear you are hanging your tools. Its a big loss for our comunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl350z Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 WTF? i have nothing but great things to say about flav, he is a genuine nice guy overall and i also consider him as my friend. its a shame that things have to end up this way! keep your head up bro, there is a lot us who respects you and your work. many blessings to you and your fam and good luck on your new watch line. cheers! reg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Damn, that just sucks. I've always found Flav really helpfull with advice about my own projects. Whoever's pulled this crap is one sorry SoB. Having worked in the retail industry several years ago, I know first hand how unpleasant it is trying to deal with aggrevated customers. The guy who came up with the phrase "the customer is always right" wants to try working in the 21st Century and see how well his motto holds up to his home-spun values... In my experience, customers that ger really narky like this are often pathetic inadequates who couldn't afford the product in the first place, are hoping to get their money back by complaining about it, and are probably so beaten down in their lives, that their only outlet is sales staff who have to bite their tongues for fear of losing their jobs... It's a sad day when schmucks act like this, because it has knockon effects which then impact everyone. Very sorry state of affairs. Keep your chin up, Flav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY0811 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 The guy who threatened you needs to be banned for blackmail....he got free mods and then pushed it too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 i have to say to flav's statement, what he said is absolutely correct. every week my watchmaker gets from me pams for mods or adjustment or pam single parts for mounting or anything. and i know he has always a lot of customers work on his bench, but he tries always my order to manage in between and sometimes it does'nt work, so he has to accomplish first the customers work. i know a watchmaker work is very sensible and needs time and it's also sometimes stressful and it's absolutely handwork and each day to work with an eye magnifier, thats too hard. nobody can work with an eye magnifier under stress. so, folk, it's very important to give these watchmakers and members here no stress and please a lot of respect. otherwise if you get a kick, don't be surprised. peace for all !!!!!!!!!!!!!! rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I think you need to name names here: something doesn't sound right relative to the customer's side of the story. He tried to blackmail you by 'outing' out on the forum in order to receive free services - I'd like to see his justifications in writing here for such an aggressive and uncompromising attitude. Sorry this had to happen to you - I've never heard anything but good things about your work, so I think that the burden of proof is on your anonymous client. He should come forward after a performance like that: in a certain way, he's put you out of business (even if it's your own decision) and this affects both you and the numerous members of the forum who were perfectly satisfied with your work. This member owes it to the forum to state his case - and perhaps to rethink it and little more logically and fairly in your favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye_lin Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 HI I will stick my head out all the way here to say that Flav is the one of the most honest and honourable guy I know. You can cut my neck off or hang me.. I dun care... Flav has been making me vintage PAM hommages with vintage mvts for the past 6 mths and all his work is top top top notch.... the work is tough but he has never complained and workmanship is awesome... he has also corrected any unexpected flaws in the watch with no questions and additional payment.... He does not deserve to be treated this way..... it is our loss not his if he stops providing mod services.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyhole Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 He does not deserve to be treated this way..... it is our loss not his if he stops providing mod services.... A huge +1 Flav is an asset to the community and it would be a real shame to see him taken out of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRiddle Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I think you need to name names here: something doesn't sound right relative to the customer's side of the story. He tried to blackmail you by 'outing' out on the forum in order to receive free services - I'd like to see his justifications in writing here for such an aggressive and uncompromising attitude. i agree, sounds like a shady individual utilizing anonymous internet to its fullest, shrug him off chris he not worth it and who is he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK471 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 oof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Food for thought. A year ago I paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplehd Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Sorry to hear about this Flav...you are a true asset to this community and always professional...you have helped me out many times and I am very thankful for that....don't let this incident get to you...total B.S... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maikel Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Please don't let the fun be spoiled by such a freak...there is always one with a big mouth to compromise his short penis! To refund the money and enjoy a free mod is more then kind from your side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azerbyjam Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Really sad to hear another story about members doing the dirty on other members Perhaps transcripts of emails ect, should be forwarded to admin to have these [censored] banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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